Mapping the System

caphab1 · Aug 13, 2015

Hey All!

I am not sure if it's been done yet, but I got down a trail of bread crumbs that I thought would be fun. I went through using the RR DB IAW the FCC DB as well and located and mapped all of the RWC sites in the Phx Metro. This map is private but I thought for those that are attempting to receive via a yagi or what have you that this may assist in your endeavors!

RWC Sites 8.13.15

I also plan on doing this for the TRWC where Mesa and Gilbert, and AJ agencies are co-located.

73
Preston

radioguru6613 · Aug 14, 2015

Very cool !! Puts things into perspective !!

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

Very impressive! I started a similar project about a year ago and have lots of data, but ended up pulling my hair out and giving up! There are a few still missing that I know of though, ASU West at 43 Ave & Thunderbird, The Phoenix water plant at 24 St & Lincoln Dr, 1 (and possibly 2) on the White Tank Mountains, the downtown Phoenix Public Safety Building, and (I can't remember what the name is) the small mountain at I-17 & Pinnacle Peak Rd.

I don't mean to sound negative, you did a great job.

caphab1 · Aug 14, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
Very impressive! I started a similar project about a year ago and have lots of data, but ended up pulling my hair out and giving up! There are a few still missing that I know of though, ASU West at 43 Ave & Thunderbird, The Phoenix water plant at 24 St & Lincoln Dr, 1 (and possibly 2) on the White Tank Mountains, the downtown Phoenix Public Safety Building, and (I can't remember what the name is) the small mountain at I-17 & Pinnacle Peak Rd.

I don't mean to sound negative, you did a great job.

Well thank you! It means a lot!! What data I can find on those sites I will update the map let you know when it's complete. I was sure upon finishing that there was more sites to be had that weren't listed, but the RRDB and FCCDB only has so much!

N9JIG · Aug 14, 2015

Great Map! On the White Tanks site, should that show up a bit to the west though? The site is actually in the antenna farm west of the main gate about 6 miles west of the plotted location.

caphab1 · Aug 14, 2015

N9JIG said:
Great Map! On the White Tanks site, should that show up a bit to the west though? The site is actually in the antenna farm west of the main gate about 6 miles west of the plotted location.

Thank you! I pulled the mapping off of RR site and correlated with Google Maps to find the best location. Some of those, like White tanks, Towers and a couple others did not have direct addresses so they got put where the site thought they should go. I had no say in that unfortunately.

But that site you are referencing 6mi from the entrance; is that on top of the Barry Goldwater Peak?

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

I know finding and documenting/confirming the data can be a task. Just as one example I listen to G a lot. I think I found a total of about 12 different sites, but one source listed 6 sites, another 8, and another 8 or 9. 3 or 4 of the sites were listed all 3 times, then they all showed different locations. I have driven around a bit and confirmed ASU West, the Greenway Treatment Plant, and the Pinnacle Pk Rd site all transmitting G. I guess when I get some time I should drive around and check out some more.

If you're wondering how I confirmed them, I'd get within about a quarter mile of the site and remove the antenna. I wouldn't pickup any other sites but get a strong signal from the near-by site. Kind of mickey mouse and time consuming, but it works.

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

N9JIG said:
Great Map! On the White Tanks site, should that show up a bit to the west though? The site is actually in the antenna farm west of the main gate about 6 miles west of the plotted location.

I missed that one. There are 2 different antenna farms in the White Tanks, and I've found info indicating both sites are used by the RWC. I don't know if that's true, or they only use one site and the info is wrong.

And I don't think I'm going to drive up there to confirm.

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

caphab1 said:
Thank you! I pulled the mapping off of RR site and correlated with Google Maps to find the best location. Some of those, like White tanks, Towers and a couple others did not have direct addresses so they got put where the site thought they should go. I had no say in that unfortunately.

But that site you are referencing 6mi from the entrance; is that on top of the Barry Goldwater Peak?

I used long/lat data to find/confirm many sites. Most of that data has been right on, but some has been off by anywhere from a few hundred yards to a mile, and some show nothing at all! I don't know if someone keyed in wrong numbers, or.....

If I remember right I think I found 3 different locations for the White Tanks, two indicating the different antenna farms, and one nowhere to be found! Like I said, it's a challange.

caphab1 · Aug 14, 2015

Interesting Information Phoenix805! I will have to do some digging on FCC. I was only using the direct address and a map to find em, not gps coordinates because FCC's coordinates are so difficult to translate something Google Understands, at least for me!

rwier · Aug 14, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
" ... small mountain at I-17 & Pinnacle Peak Rd. .."

Adobe Mtn. would fit that description and it has electronics at the top and vehicle access.

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

caphab1 said:
Interesting Information Phoenix805! I will have to do some digging on FCC. I was only using the direct address and a map to find em, not gps coordinates because FCC's coordinates are so difficult to translate something Google Understands, at least for me!

I had forgotten that until you mentioned it. I don't remember how I did it but I think I found a web site that translated GPS formats, and I think the FCC used the degree, minute, second format and I had to convert it to the decimal format (or maybe vice versa). I think I also had to add a - in front of the longitude or I ended up in Asia! I just remember it was a pain!

<Adobe Mtn. would fit that description and it has electronics at the top and vehicle access.>

Yep, Adobe Mountain. Thanks, I couldn't remember the name.

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
I missed that one. There are 2 different antenna farms in the White Tanks, and I've found info indicating both sites are used by the RWC. I don't know if that's true, or they only use one site and the info is wrong.

And I don't think I'm going to drive up there to confirm.

I found a similar problem with Lake Pleasant and South Mountain - 2 different sites in the same area. If I remember there are 2 tower sites at Lake Pleasant, do they use one or both? And 2 different GPS location on South Mountain, but one antenna farm. 2 different towers in the same area? Or a misprint somewhere and it's just one location?

Like I said, I did a bunch of research, and the deeper I dug, the more hair I pulled out until I finally gave up.

caphab1 · Aug 14, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
I found a similar problem with Lake Pleasant and South Mountain - 2 different sites in the same area. If I remember there are 2 tower sites at Lake Pleasant, do they use one or both? And 2 different GPS location on South Mountain, but one antenna farm. 2 different towers in the same area? Or a misprint somewhere and it's just one location?

Like I said, I did a bunch of research, and the deeper I dug, the more hair I pulled out until I finally gave up.

From What I found for the site at Pleasant it was just the 2 towers but they only use the one. There are 3 "sites" on SM. One on Rd B and two over by KZZP-FM off of S TV Rd according to what I found.

I'm just getting started. If you're willing to share youre findings and wealth of knowledge Im sure you have.

Phoenix805 · Aug 14, 2015

caphab1 said:
From What I found for the site at Pleasant it was just the 2 towers but they only use the one. There are 3 "sites" on SM. One on Rd B and two over by KZZP-FM off of S TV Rd according to what I found.

I'm just getting started. If you're willing to share youre findings and wealth of knowledge Im sure you have.

Looks like you know things that I don't! I'll be glad to share what I have, as long as you understand that it's not very well organized, it's definitely confusing, and it probably has mistakes! I have it in an Excel spreadsheet if you can use that format. I don't think I can attach it in here, you'll probably have to shoot me an email address I can send it to.

Phoenix805 · Aug 17, 2015

I found one of my missing files that I couldn't locate the other day. Your info and mine are very close. One of my discrepancies is the Quintero - Lake Pleasant - Iron Age Dr. sites. I found 2 different sets of GPS data for the Iron Age address, one at the Quintero golf course where I can't find a tower on the satellite pics, and one showing the second site at Lake Pleasant that you said wasn't being used, so who knows.

I have 3 additional sites on the J system, one is probably the one you have with the vague location, and 2 others you don't have.

I'm also curious about the 12255 E Paraiso Dr address you have. I don't have any info on that one, and it looks like it's a transmitter site next to a mansion in the mountains!

The 'unorganized' info I have I assume is the simulcast B & C sites, because neither of us have good info on those sites. I don't know how many sites overlap different simulcast groups, but like I said earlier, ASU West transmits on Simul G (and probably others), but I couldn't find it with the G information.

Blind_Shadow · Aug 18, 2015

Thanks for the Sitemap. Your map looks super. I have been looking for something a little easier to use and this is it. I am very appreciative for your post here and sharing what you have done.

caphab1 · Aug 18, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
I found one of my missing files that I couldn't locate the other day. Your info and mine are very close. One of my discrepancies is the Quintero - Lake Pleasant - Iron Age Dr. sites. I found 2 different sets of GPS data for the Iron Age address, one at the Quintero golf course where I can't find a tower on the satellite pics, and one showing the second site at Lake Pleasant that you said wasn't being used, so who knows.

---- I too found the two GPS discrepencies as well and I correlated that to the Quintero as part of the Pleasant site. It showed one being down the road from the actual pleasant site and one being up right adjacent to the Visitor center. Ill have to post some screen shots of the sites I am mentioning when I get back to the house.

I have 3 additional sites on the J system, one is probably the one you have with the vague location, and 2 others you don't have.

--Is it possible to share that document of information you have collected so that what I have generated may be as accurate as can be?

I'm also curious about the 12255 E Paraiso Dr address you have. I don't have any info on that one, and it looks like it's a transmitter site next to a mansion in the mountains!

--- Yes that one is. According to what the notes of the site location were telling me is that the tower is on the building at the end of the cul-de-sac adj. the mansion!

The 'unorganized' info I have I assume is the simulcast B & C sites, because neither of us have good info on those sites. I don't know how many sites overlap different simulcast groups, but like I said earlier, ASU West transmits on Simul G (and probably others), but I couldn't find it with the G information.

--- So I guess this is the beast that needs the most attention eh! Ill dig on this as much as I can.

Preston

Phoenix805 · Aug 18, 2015

I have 2 sites near I-10 & Highway 85, with a notation on one that says 'probably no longer in use'. I don't remember why I noted that, but the 2nd location jives with yours, so that's probably right. Other than that, I had the same 4. You have one shown as Festival Ranch, Buckeye, which meant nothing to me. When I zoomed in on your map I see it's on the NW corners of the White Tanks, and I have an address of 280 Ave & Sun Valley Parkway for that site, so once again we jive. On the Estrella Parkway I had a totally different address, but when I checked the GPS for it, your address is right, and mine was wrong. There is another tower near the address I had (South 171 Ave), but I don't see it on any of my 'good' lists, so I'm not sure where I got it from, maybe an A or B site that I got mixed in.

I was going to drive around today and check some sites, but I felt like crap so I stayed home and played on the computer. I was thinking about working on A & B, but I think they're rebanding B, so I don't think I'll even start on that one for now. Maybe I'll do some digging on A this week. Or maybe not!

caphab1 · Aug 19, 2015

Phoenix805 said:
I have 2 sites near I-10 & Highway 85, with a notation on one that says 'probably no longer in use'. I don't remember why I noted that, but the 2nd location jives with yours, so that's probably right.

Im not sure where you are talking about here?

Phoenix805 said:
Other than that, I had the same 4.

Same 4 where?

Phoenix805 said:
You have one shown as Festival Ranch, Buckeye, which meant nothing to me. When I zoomed in on your map I see it's on the NW corners of the White Tanks, and I have an address of 280 Ave & Sun Valley Parkway for that site, so once again we jive.

Thanks for that info!

Phoenix805 said:
On the Estrella Parkway I had a totally different address, but when I checked the GPS for it, your address is right, and mine was wrong.

Hey thats great! I did some more research and the like, found a TRWC site without my antenna hooked to my scanner today out in E. Mesa/Gilbert Lands!

Phoenix805 said:
There is another tower near the address I had (South 171 Ave), but I don't see it on any of my 'good' lists, so I'm not sure where I got it from, maybe an A or B site that I got mixed in.

Im not sure either, but when i pulled that S 171st ave up in Google it shows goodyear and Buckeye. The Closest site is 3-4 mi north and a couple west on rainbow valley road.

Phoenix805 said:
I was going to drive around today and check some sites, but I felt like crap so I stayed home and played on the computer. I was thinking about working on A & B, but I think they're rebanding B, so I don't think I'll even start on that one for now. Maybe I'll do some digging on A this week. Or maybe not!

Hey well, I hope you have more free time then I do to do that! 2 days free from work aint enough for everything in life! HAR HAR Im glad to hear tho that the data is mostly accurate online, though as we suspect there are undiscovered new sites on the FCC not yet on RRDB.

Mapping the System

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