old discone?

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kafw4202

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Just getting back into scanning, mostly because of the fires here in rural Washington. Expecting a Uniden HP-2 today.

I already have a 30+ year old discone antenna on the roof that does not appear to be missing any radials.

Has the technology changed so much that this will be a waste of time and just flat out needs to be replaced? Is it capable of receiving 800mhz+ at all?

I don't suppose anyone has successfully used an old analog tv/fm antenna? satelite tv dish? Some of mom's old ham antennas are still on the roof but I am not sure what they were each for (she was into all bands). I can take a few photos if anyone thinks they might work.

I'm not able to climb ladders anymore and would have to pay someone to do the work up there and I am on a fixed budget so willing to try most anything.
 

PACNWDude

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That discone, if it is in tact and the frequency is correct is an excellent receiver antenna. Many of them operate from VHF to 900 MHz or so, so is the coax is not dry rotted and the connector isn't corroded beyond use, you should try it on your scanner.

I use and old Diamond discone that has been taken apart and moved several times, the connectors and coax being the only part that has been a problem. It looks worse for wear, but still receives well. Where you are at, it won't take much of an antenna to hear comms for firefighters.
 

kafw4202

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Am I the only person that thinks these 'compression connectors' and associated tools just make things more complicated? I am giving up on them and breaking out the soldering iron.

I'll try to find someone willing to climb the snow roof to update the coax. I suppose the spool of rg59 that was used to run it in the first place isn't what you had in mind ;) On the bright side, all the antennas on the roof are still wired into the house so no corrosion on that end.
 

PACNWDude

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I have had some issues with compression connectors. Often times the tools needs to be bought from the same vendor or manufacturer of the connectors in order for them to work. Tolerances are not held too tightly in China.

I even went so far as to mark my tools as to which ones to use them with, this also goes for RJ-11 and RJ-45 type telephone and data connectors.

Many connectors for RG-6 Quad are out of tolerance for some cable, or if you are using Siamese cable, you have to trim the excess to make each cable round.....lots of crazy issues with compression connectors.

I used them on my discone antenna though. Has worked for 6 years at this location now though.
 

prcguy

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Yes you are. All the satellite providers and cable companies use compression connectors exclusively and some specify connectors from only one approved vendor. The reasons are for achieving the best and most consistent performance and ease/speed of assembly. The old crimp ring F connectors are dead.

If you not talking about F connectors the same applies to N, BNC, etc, if you have good quality connectors and the proper stripper and crimpers you will always make a better and more consistent connection.

Don't believe it? Check rules for wiring aircraft or any other life or death type of installation. Soldered connectors are illegal, you must use crimp.
prcguy


Am I the only person that thinks these 'compression connectors' and associated tools just make things more complicated? I am giving up on them and breaking out the soldering iron.

I'll try to find someone willing to climb the snow roof to update the coax. I suppose the spool of rg59 that was used to run it in the first place isn't what you had in mind ;) On the bright side, all the antennas on the roof are still wired into the house so no corrosion on that end.
 

kafw4202

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Update on the discone.. you were absolutely correct about the coax needing to be replaced.. no signal reception with it connected (which is expected since I am under a 40' x 70' metal snow roof (over the house and porches). Of course it could be from prepping the cable by hand.. I think the difference might be in the fancy little strippers. Might have to invest in one of them.
 

mancow

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Yes you are. All the satellite providers and cable companies use compression connectors exclusively and some specify connectors from only one approved vendor. The reasons are for achieving the best and most consistent performance and ease/speed of assembly. The old crimp ring F connectors are dead.

If you not talking about F connectors the same applies to N, BNC, etc, if you have good quality connectors and the proper stripper and crimpers you will always make a better and more consistent connection.

Don't believe it? Check rules for wiring aircraft or any other life or death type of installation. Soldered connectors are illegal, you must use crimp.
prcguy

I wish they made them in regular 50 ohm BNC and N styles and actuate the same as the F types. Compression types are so much easier to work with.
 

N3JI

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Yes you are. All the satellite providers and cable companies use compression connectors exclusively and some specify connectors from only one approved vendor. The reasons are for achieving the best and most consistent performance and ease/speed of assembly. The old crimp ring F connectors are dead.

If you not talking about F connectors the same applies to N, BNC, etc, if you have good quality connectors and the proper stripper and crimpers you will always make a better and more consistent connection.

Don't believe it? Check rules for wiring aircraft or any other life or death type of installation. Soldered connectors are illegal, you must use crimp.
prcguy
No, he's not -- this isn't mass production. Buying new tools when you need to install a connector nor two is just ludicrous. If you're installing the same connectors on the same cable type daily, then of course. But for someone like me that uses N, UHF, minii-UHF, F, SMA, SMB, SMC, BNC, TNC, etc, etc, etc, in very small volumes on very diverse types of coaxial cables, I would be spending $1000s on tools to do a handful of connectors over decades. I have been soldering since I was a kid, and I have yet to have a problem with my installations. As long as I can get solder type connectors, that's what I'll buy. And by the way, when I retired from the Air Force in the RF Comm career field, we were still soldering connectors. ;-)
 

kafw4202

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You're not kidding! Just getting a stripper tool that might be useful on more then one type coax and a compression tool that it useful for more then one type connection, add in the connectors that are NOT re-usable was going to add up to a car payment.

I bought a new tip for the soldering iron and am cleaning up old connectors. I cost me $3.75 and no learning curve ;)
 

Voyager

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Love those compression connectors. I just wish they made compression BNCs for RG-58.
(a thinly veiled plea for sources of same)
 

kafw4202

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I am going to have to brazenly advertise my ignorance in such things.. but you made me wonder about why I seem to be having some difficulties..

How can I tell what coax these antennas are on? Since this was the folk's ranch, their antennas, and they are the ones that chose the cable when they were mounted.. is there a way to tell rg58, rg59, and rg6? I do have calipers available but I'm thinking the differences might be too narrow to be positive with manufacturing methods, brands, and age etc.
 

ab3a

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How can I tell what coax these antennas are on?

Usually it is marked on the outer insulation of the cable. If those marks are illegible, then you really ought to consider replacing it. If the cable is new and not marked with anything, it probably means you have someone's look-alike knock-off brand. The problem there is that while you may have continuity, the insulation dielectrics are typically substandard, the outer braid may not be adequate, and losses will be significantly higher, especially at the upper limits of the UHF spectrum.

Also, when replacing coax at the antenna, I strongly recommend sealing up the connection with electrician's putty, tape, or some sealing agent. The goal is to keep water out of that connection. I've seen many coaxial cables ruined because water got inside it. Do not rely upon the connector to do this for you.
 

jackj

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If you have access to an unterminated end of the cable (no connector) then:
RG-58 will have a stranded center conductor.
RG-59 has a slightly larger outer diameter and, most often has a metallic foil shield as well as a braided one.
RG-6 will have a larger diameter than the other two as well as shielding like '59.
Both RG-59 and RG-6 will have a solid center conductor.
If you do not have access to an unterminated end, look up the cable's specs on-line and check the diameter of each type.

If I were you, I would replace any unknow cable with cable from a reputable manufacturer. Then you will know what type you have and that it is good quality cable.
 
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kafw4202

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I hear and completely agree with the recommendation of using all new and buying the right stuff. There is a 'proper' way to do things for best reception.

However, I am on a fixed and limited budget and quite disabled. Spending hundreds on tools, connectors, high grade coax, hiring someone to climb the roof is just not possible.

My questions come from a willingness to experiment, with what I have, to see what is possible within these constraints. I will not be transmitting or trying to break records of distance and strength of signal.

I have reboxed, unbranded but virgin, clean, and unweathered coax, Parkay plastic dishes full of connectors and adapters, and a roof with a bunch of antennas I know next to nothing about. I'll let you know how alligator clips and field fencing work.
 

N8IAA

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I hear and completely agree with the recommendation of using all new and buying the right stuff. There is a 'proper' way to do things for best reception.

However, I am on a fixed and limited budget and quite disabled. Spending hundreds on tools, connectors, high grade coax, hiring someone to climb the roof is just not possible.

My questions come from a willingness to experiment, with what I have, to see what is possible within these constraints. I will not be transmitting or trying to break records of distance and strength of signal.

I have reboxed, unbranded but virgin, clean, and unweathered coax, Parkay plastic dishes full of connectors and adapters, and a roof with a bunch of antennas I know next to nothing about. I'll let you know how alligator clips and field fencing work.

Since your mom was a ham, I'm going to go with RG-58, RG-8/8 mini, or even better coax. They are all 50 ohm. The other coax types you mentioned are for cable/dish hook ups. They will work for receive.
The coax for transmitting will probably match up better for your radios. Most use 50 ohm connections.
HTH,
Larry
 

Voyager

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Once you have identified which cable goes to which antenna, mark both ends with either colored electrical taps or colored tie wraps and make a list of what is what in case you forget.
 

cmdrwill

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Maybe some one close to you could help out. Maybe some one from the local ham club can. You really need a SWR tester to 'read' the cables and that can give a clue what range antenna is connected to that cable.

I would be glad to roll on over with the proper test equipment, but that is three states away...
 
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