We're almost there, almost. A durable, digital scanner is needed.

Status
Not open for further replies.

fireboat61

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
204
Location
DelMarVa
I initiated a Thread in the past regarding the necessity for a more durable scanner. I received numerous replies in the positive, but was shocked to receive a few negative, as if what I was saying needed to be kept a secret. I still believe it’s time for a company to look into producing a scanner which is P25 phase II and of course all other scanner bands analog, digital, conventional and trunking capable but with the simplicity of computer programming with large knobs and screen. I have thought about this over and over again. How can I take a Uniden 436 or whistler 1080 and shove it into an Apx? If Uniden or Whistler would take their scanner product and make it into a strong case like a Motorola apx with a long lasting rechargeable battery of 2700 MAH or greater, 1000 mw speaker , big channel knobs , and a nice display, I’d say that company would have the market. I mention the market because I was told that what I am asking for is not a profitable venture any company. I know when any company comes out with a new $5 - 600 scanner its sells like hotcakes just because of it is new!! I know what is profitable, when I dropped my scanner from a table top and the LCD screen cracks which required a $70 fee to fix it after owning it for 2 weeks. That is profitable because it will break from simple daily use. It wasn't like I swung a baseball bat into it. Of course daily use is not cover by warranties with the new improved rugged design case of the digital (expensive) scanner. I disagree that it won’t be profitable because I see many Motorola apx radios for sale and people are buying them for the fact that they are strong, loud and once programmed are very simple to operate. Most of those radios are in the $2700 price range and more on eBay. They are that expensive for the mere fact they have many more features not needed for a daily scanner use. If those features where not in the radio like encryption and MDC1200, and fire ground accountability etc., the price would be much less and in a more mildly affordable value. If a company was able to price a scanner with the Apx's basic capabilities and durability, I am sure it would sell even if it cost $7 - 8 - 900 dollars depending on model versions. Even though that cost is high, if it’s strong and reliable the customer would not mind investing that high dollar figure. I hope a scanner manufacturer designs the next scanner with these functions in mind.

1. Simple not complicated. (Display with only what is needed on it)
2. Large loud speaker that is water and environment resistant
3. Long lasting rechargeable battery pack which can be drop charged (2700 ma or greater)
4. Big Rubber knobs (volume and channel) not plastic.
5. Computer programmable with radio reference interface

The fact that there a very smart engineers capable of writing code to develop a p25 scanner like Uniden or whistlers product means they can figure out how to put it into an apx or a similar strong plastic and rubber case.

I will figure this out one day because it will definitely be worth it to me.
 

jdeverett

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
64
Location
Venice, FL
Fireboat61, I am on board with you and would invest in a quality rig like the above suggested. 73's w2weg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

XTS3000

Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2005
Messages
1,098
I'd buy one!

The 396XT is close. The circuit boards are excellent quality and very strong. After 6 years of using the 396XT daily and taking it everywhere I go, it's suffered from falls off the car, being sat on, falling off the table so many times it crazy. It still works like it did in 2009. The only thing thats broken from my 396XT is the rat tail antennas I use (Comet SMA503).

Just add an APX quality case to a revamped 396XT to include P25 II, and it would be a winner!
 

KA2ZEY

Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
511
Location
Brooklyn, NY
i hope we can make them smaller. i dont like the size of the 436 and the apx or xts motorolas .

Make it thin profile like the Icom ID51a or id31a....now those are some nice radios to hold, put on your belt or pocket.
 

rwier

Member
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
1,914
Location
Phoenix, AZ
I won't get to see it myself, but years down the way, maybe the scanner industry's leader might be something like Timex?
 

SCPD

QRT
Joined
Feb 24, 2001
Messages
0
Location
Virginia
Moto look alike

I agree so much with the OP. If Motorola can make a radio case you can drop 3' on cement, and it may get a scratch, but keep working just fine, there's no reason scanner manufacturers couldn't do the same.

And here's something I think would sell more radios:
Make a scanner that looks just like a two way radio. Pick a Motorola series of radios, and make a scanner that takes the same battery, same charger AND the same speaker mike. Don't even make your own batteries, chargers and mikes, just include one set of genuine Motorola's with each radio.

Genuine Motorola batteries are going to last. On a receive only radio, they may go a week without a charge. I get a week out of my XPR handheld, and I tx about an hour every day. I'm sure if some manufacturer approached Motorola about getting permission to make a scanner that takes their batteries, charger and mike, I think they would look at it as a way to sell more batteries, chargers and mikes.

And imagine the chubby that whackers would get when they can walk around with a scanner that looks like a two way, with an original Motorola mike clipped to their collar for all to see. Every whacker would buy one, even if it cost $100 more than it should.
 
Last edited:

fireboat61

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
204
Location
DelMarVa
I see my thread has had many views. I appreciate the responses in favor of a totally redesigned scanner. Please anyone who has viewed already or currently viewing the thread , I'm asking you reply in favor of or against the changes.
 

gmclam

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Sep 15, 2006
Messages
6,335
Location
Fair Oaks, CA
Durable scanner

producing a scanner which is P25 phase II
This is needed in today's environment.

large knobs and screen
Perhaps a desk model can have large knobs, but portable units can't unless you want large(r) hand-held models.

make it into a strong case like a Motorola apx
Sounds like you want a unit you can drop without it breaking. That's only half of the equation. Dropping can still 'knock' units out of tune. Making units shock resistant certainly increases the cost.

with a long lasting rechargeable battery of 2700 MAH or greater
With current models using AA batteries, users can use whatever capacity they like, including 2700mAh.

1000 mw speaker , big channel knobs , and a nice display, I’d say that company would have the market
I disagree. Too many people make purchase decisions based on price. If the above can be provided at a reasonable cost, ok. However, adding these items may cause the price of a unit to become 'unreasonable'.

I disagree that it won’t be profitable because I see many Motorola apx radios for sale and people are buying them for the fact that they are strong, loud and once programmed are very simple to operate.
And how many units are manufactured? How many scanners you desire would be manufactured? The quantity of units manufactured/sold greatly affects the price.

Most of those radios are in the $2700 price range and more on eBay. They are that expensive for the mere fact they have many more features not needed for a daily scanner use. If those features where not in the radio like encryption and MDC1200, and fire ground accountability etc., the price would be much less and in a more mildly affordable value.
Dream on. "Features", especially firmware-based features cost the producer little to create. This is why most of what is sold today is feature rich (and contains so many bugs). Removing firmware based features does not reduce the cost to produce most products.

1. Simple not complicated. (Display with only what is needed on it)
Today's radio systems are complex. Scanners must be complex to keep up with them. I would like to see the information displayed be "user configurable". This could be easily done on any of the GRE scanners I use.

2. Large loud speaker that is water and environment resistant
Cost.

3. Long lasting rechargeable battery pack which can be drop charged (2700 ma or greater)
We have that now, but I don't charge in the radio.

4. Big Rubber knobs (volume and channel) not plastic.
For only squelch and volume? Those are the least of my issues. What about all the keys on the keypad?

5. Computer programmable with radio reference interface
We have that now although protocols could be GREATLY improved. The GRE protocols were designed for "cloning" and not as a true computer interface. This could be done, as it is just firmware, if there is a will to do so. But GRE never wanted to even release their protocols to the public.
 

Voyager

Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2002
Messages
12,060
I suggested a Motorola type case material to Uniden many years ago. I imagine it's just not economically feasible to make it out of that. Although in fairness I've had few case issues with the Uniden scanners.
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,452
Location
Illinois
Maybe a simpler and perhaps more frugal approach to accomplish the same objectives, might be to explore molded rubber or silicon cases for durability, and further exploration of programming templates to "custom" tune digital systems for better response and sound?

Trying to strong arm the scanner industry to produce more robust products may only increase the prices for us as consumers, when more creativity on our part might very well serve our needs. Just my thoughts here is all ... :roll:

73,
n9zas
 

DJ11DLN

Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2013
Messages
2,068
Location
Mudhole, IN
Maybe a simpler and perhaps more frugal approach to accomplish the same objectives, might be to explore molded rubber or silicon cases for durability...

I for one would be happy with this solution. I've had commercial gear over the years that was no more durable than today's scanners...but it came encased in a very nice, durable hard case that protected the radio to an enhanced degree over carrying it "naked," and was also properly designed so that the controls were accessible and the speaker not noticeably muffled. This was mostly before displays were common on ht's but making one that would allow you to read the display while protecting the screen ought not to be impossible. But when I look at aftermarket scanner cases, I see a lot of stuff that just looks cheap and poorly designed, masking displays, controls, and ports, and doesn't look to offer a whole lot of protection from anything other than scratches. And making the scanner itself more durable is just going to result in even more cost, for reasons explained amply in previous posts. Alternatively, even $100 for a really good protective case that fits properly and works well is cheap insurance on a $500 scanner...but those who don't need it, need not buy it.

One thing I did was to drill the belt clips of my scanners so I could thread a lanyard through them...if I'm climbing or just where there's a big risk of banging my hip (and the scanner) against stuff, I hang it around my neck. A good aftermarket case should include a lanyard loop (as most cases for commercial stuff does) as well as a decent belt clip or swivel.:wink:
 

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
23,615
Location
Hiding in a coffee shop.
I seem to remember my old Bearcat 100 being pretty well built. An aluminum frame, if I recall correctly. The knobs were pitifully small, though.
What really helped it was a tight fitting thick leather case that came with it (not an optional item, came in the box). I remember dropping it several times and didn't have an issue.

I'm not in the market for a hand held scanner, but if I was, I'd be interested in something like this. I agree, though, I doubt you'd get a scanner manufacturer to make such a beast. To have all the functions you are looking for plus a durable design might put it out of the range of what the average consumer/hobbyist would be willing to pay. Sure, there are some hard core users that would pay the extra coin for one of these. I'd be interested to know how many scanners any given brand has sold in the last year. Would be interesting to know what the market size is.

I've got enough commercial radios to cover my needs, but who knows what I'd want down the road.
 

fireboat61

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 4, 2009
Messages
204
Location
DelMarVa
I know that most people are not willing to pay for an scanner which would have all the changes I would like to see. If I had to settle for one it would be the housing. First off I did own the uniden 436hp , the homepatrol 1, gre psr800 and many older models. I of course feed the companies with my money because I eventually buy on curiosity. There were many features I liked with all the scanners. So the electronic / firmware side I feel is there and working well. My background has always been in the public safety field so I am constantly in search for that perfect scanner capable of enduring the test of time and no so pleasant environments. I have worn a Motorola monitor pager for the better of 15 years and that pager has to be the strongest plastic case I have ever had. I dropped it out of a fire engine and it was barely scratched and still worked great. Why can't this thick plastic be used in the scanner market. Does it really cost that much more from the current plastic used ? I currently own a Unication G1 pager and that case is awesome. It's strong plastic with a rubber surround for fall protection. It's has sealed knobs and is waterproof to a few feet. I feel that I make small percentage of scanner listeners who purchase today's models.

I think if whistler was to take their 1080 and harden the case , the same exact design they have it would be a winner. Make the front key pad buttons actually out of solid rubber , not a coating that wears off after 2 months of use. Lastly make top selector knob slightly bigger and out of the same style as Motorola knobs, it would be much improved.

I hate to think many disagree. I think I'm one of few that would rather have slightly bigger then smaller. I really like that uniden 436hp was bigger then the 396. It allowed a larger display, more surface area to hold onto and I liked how the rubber grip was added to the side.
 
Last edited:

Boatanchor

Member
Joined
Jul 17, 2011
Messages
991
I'd buy one!

The 396XT is close. The circuit boards are excellent quality and very strong. After 6 years of using the 396XT daily and taking it everywhere I go, it's suffered from falls off the car, being sat on, falling off the table so many times it crazy. It still works like it did in 2009. The only thing thats broken from my 396XT is the rat tail antennas I use (Comet SMA503).

Just add an APX quality case to a revamped 396XT to include P25 II, and it would be a winner!

I agree, the 396xt was almost the perfect form factor and would have been a fantastic candidate for phase 2, a revised memory system to cater for larger systems, a more rugged case and a minor display upgrade :( Mine too has been dropped, abused and used almost every day in the field for years and it is still going strong.

Instead we got the 352P2, which despite the inclusion of phase 2, looks like a cheap plastic toy and the 436HP, which few would argue makes a good EDC scanner.

It is a bit like Toyota suddenly stopping development and manufacturing of the Corolla and instead coming out with two brand new, untested models. People buy the Corolla because of it's well earned reputation for reliability and resale value. The same could easily be said of the 396xt...

Big mistake Uniden.
 

natedawg1604

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
2,725
Location
Colorado
I would certainly buy such a radio, as long as it had full site roaming (of the kind in a XTS, minus affiliation) and LSM simulcast support. Those two things should have been added years ago by scanner manufactures, I will never understand why it was/is so difficult for them to implement..
 

KB7MIB

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2003
Messages
4,194
Location
Peoria, AZ.
I liked the Saber form factor, personally. I had to look up the APX, which appears to be what Phoenix FD, et al, use here. (Neon yellow.) It'd be acceptable, too. (I wouldn't mind if they used either form factor for purpose-built MURS- and/or GMRS-certified radios.)

I think one downside might be public safety personnel giving you funny looks if they see you with a scanner that outwardly looks (and sounds) identical to what they're carrying though. This could lead to questions, especially if there have been impersonation incidents in/near your locale. Just something to consider.

John
Peoria, AZ
 

gewecke

Completely Banned for the Greater Good
Banned
Joined
Jan 29, 2006
Messages
7,452
Location
Illinois
I seem to remember my old Bearcat 100 being pretty well built. An aluminum frame, if I recall correctly. The knobs were pitifully small, though.
What really helped it was a tight fitting thick leather case that came with it (not an optional item, came in the box). I remember dropping it several times and didn't have an issue.

I'm not in the market for a hand held scanner, but if I was, I'd be interested in something like this. I agree, though, I doubt you'd get a scanner manufacturer to make such a beast. To have all the functions you are looking for plus a durable design might put it out of the range of what the average consumer/hobbyist would be willing to pay. Sure, there are some hard core users that would pay the extra coin for one of these. I'd be interested to know how many scanners any given brand has sold in the last year. Would be interesting to know what the market size is.

I've got enough commercial radios to cover my needs, but who knows what I'd want down the road.

Your post reminds me of the old Regency HX1000 and HX1500 I used to have, which was also a die cast aluminum case and built much like their talkies. Pretty tank-like! :cool:

73,
n9zas
 

krokus

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
5,959
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Can't wait to hear you stand by that statement, when you choke on the $5000 price tag.

Five grand is not realistic, that is the cost of a two-way. I could see the additional engineering taking the cost over one grand.

If the cost of the same scanner in a more survivable case were a few hundred more, I would certainly look at it. I replaced the back on my PSR-500 four times, and replaced a few belt clips.

Sent via Tapatalk
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top