Charging a portable radio while the radio is on.

dixie729 · Sep 9, 2015

I've always heard that having a portable radio on the charger while the radio is on and scanning is not good on the battery.
I've tried to preach it to our folks not to do it, but it doesn't work.
So, I'd like to get some opinions on the matter.
Does it hurt the life of the battery?
And is there anything else it could harm?

Thanks
Kevin

Sent from my XT1097

buddrousa · Sep 9, 2015

Every manual I have read states do not use and charge at the same time. Every factory rep I talked to stated do not do that either. I just replaced my 5 year old battery last month EF Johnson 51SL my TK2180 battery is was just replaced just over 5 years. I run them until they die then charge them. I have backups on the pumper for scene use and my batteries always live longer than our other members do.

ElroyJetson · Sep 9, 2015

Listen to the manufacturers recommendations.

SCPD · Sep 9, 2015

Not recommended to keep radio on while in a charger. Better to only have the battery in charger cradle.

mmckenna · Sep 9, 2015

dixie729 said:
I've always heard that having a portable radio on the charger while the radio is on and scanning is not good on the battery.
I've tried to preach it to our folks not to do it, but it doesn't work.
So, I'd like to get some opinions on the matter.
Does it hurt the life of the battery?
And is there anything else it could harm?

Thanks
Kevin

Sent from my XT1097

I do my best to train our users to not do this, also. Usually gets ignored, just like when I tell them not to use the antenna as a handle for picking up the radio.
Benefit I have is that the individual departments pay for their own radios/accessories, so if they crap it up, it's their problem. I just supply the part numbers and a source to order from.

dixie729 · Sep 9, 2015

Thanks guys. Is a never ending battle. I've said not to do it for years. If I've said it once I've said it a million times not to do it...
"Oh I forgot to turn it off.." Mhmmm

Sent from my XT1097

toastycookies · Sep 10, 2015

dixie729 said:
Thanks guys. Is a never ending battle. I've said not to do it for years. If I've said it once I've said it a million times not to do it...
"Oh I forgot to turn it off.." Mhmmm

Sent from my XT1097

It's like charging a cell phone without turning it off.

You just cannot cure some peoples habits.

They will continue to leave their cell phone on and just plug it into the charger never thinking twice.

sfd119 · Sep 10, 2015

buddrousa said:
I run them until they die then charge them..

Depending on the battery, this is not good practice. IMPRESS for example.

MTS2000des · Sep 10, 2015

toastycookies said:
It's like charging a cell phone without turning it off.

You just cannot cure some peoples habits.

They will continue to leave their cell phone on and just plug it into the charger never thinking twice.

Most cellphones have intelligent circuitry in the power supply to actually power the phone off the DC supply and de-couple the battery from the circuit, so it isn't being used as a capacitor. Just about every smartphone I've owned (Galaxy S5, S4, S3, Iphone 4,4s,5, 5c and 5s) charges just fine while powered up.

Most professional two way radios don't have a "charging jack" except maybe the Motorola SL300 which has a standard micro-USB jack, and are not designed to charge and be powered on, as this loads the battery down and it never receives a full charge. No circuitry in the radio actually "knows" the radio is charging, nor is there any provision for the radio to couple itself to the DC supply from the charger to operate.

Cellphones are designed for consumers. Professional tools are designed for professionals. Need to keep your radio on 24/7? Buy an extra battery, keep it charged while one is on the portable and rotate them out accordingly.

radioman2001 · Sep 10, 2015

What most people don't known is the charging life of a battery is the number of charges not time. Most NiCad and maybe LiOn is 1000 charges. So if you throw the radio in the charger for a top off 2-3 times a day you just shortended your batteries life that many times. Yes the smart chargers help like Impress but it can only do so much. Best practice is to follow manufacturers recommendations, and as NYPD always did remove the battery from the radio BEFORE you were allowed to put it in the charger. I know I get as others have stated here 5-7 years out of my batteries since I let them die before charging.

rapidcharger · Sep 10, 2015

MTS2000des said:
Most cellphones have intelligent circuitry in the power supply to actually power the phone off the DC supply and de-couple the battery from the circuit, so it isn't being used as a capacitor. Just about every smartphone I've owned (Galaxy S5, S4, S3, Iphone 4,4s,5, 5c and 5s) charges just fine while powered up.

Most professional two way radios don't have a "charging jack" except maybe the Motorola SL300 which has a standard micro-USB jack, and are not designed to charge and be powered on, as this loads the battery down and it never receives a full charge. No circuitry in the radio actually "knows" the radio is charging, nor is there any provision for the radio to couple itself to the DC supply from the charger to operate.

Cellphones are designed for consumers. Professional tools are designed for professionals. Need to keep your radio on 24/7? Buy an extra battery, keep it charged while one is on the portable and rotate them out accordingly.

I was gonna say, i never turn my cell phone off to charge it. I often chsrge it while screen mirroring. And isnt using cell phones while you charge the whole point of car chargers?

N4KVE · Sep 10, 2015

toastycookies said:
It's like charging a cell phone without turning it off.

You just cannot cure some peoples habits.

They will continue to leave their cell phone on and just plug it into the charger never thinking twice.

See that's funny. Before I bought my 1st smart phone, just before going to bed, I would turn off my phone, plug in the charger, & wake up to a fully charged battery. After I bought my smart phone I'd again turn it off, plug it in, & guess what. The phone would turn on.
As to the OP, people pop their radios in the charger while on because they didn't pay for the battery, & don't give a crap. When the battery croaks they will go to the radio shop & ask for another on my dime. Make them pay for the batteries they abuse, & the practice will stop.

buddrousa · Sep 10, 2015

Dixie729 you could always make them pay for batteries that last less than 3 years.
Buy each member a battery engrave their ID into the battery that way the battery is trackable.

DJ11DLN · Sep 10, 2015

buddrousa said:
Dixie729 you could always make them pay for batteries that last less than 3 years.
Buy each member a battery engrave their ID into the battery that way the battery is trackable.

Fine idea.

MtnBiker2005 · Sep 10, 2015

Nice Motorola Two-way Battery Care Tips page to print out.

#7 - Do not leave your radio and fully-charged battery in the charger when not charging. Continuous charging will shorten battery life. (Do not use charger as a radio stand.)
http://www.airwavecommunication.com/motorola/accessories/battery-care-tips.htm

hitechRadio · Sep 10, 2015

Motorola Impres Batteries when using Impres charger.

The following is from the MUC/SUC Impres charger upgrade documentation release notes.

1. What’s the difference between V3.4 and V3.9?
Very Little: APX batteries are fully compatible with XTS chargers (w/inserts) with SW V3.4, therefore upgrading to V3.9 is not required. However, APX radio users leaving the radio in the “on” position will experience longer charging times. V3.9 has added SW to handle this situation if it happens occasionally. Motorola always recommends turning radio “off” when charging.

And on a side note: Every Impres battery has a serial number that can be read with the optional display module/s on a MUC. An agency can use this S/N as part of equipment list when issuing out equipment to users. Or you can get fancy and get there IMPRES™ Battery Data Reader.

Side note 2: (From manual 6875795C01 Revision D) IMPRES batteries CAN be stored in IMPRES chargers long term. IMPRES
chargers are ideally suited to maintain full charge & protect cycle life without
over-charging batteries. This is done by automatically
Reconditioning/Calibrating batteries and by continuously monitoring battery
status and reacting accordingly.

Although they don't say it, I will assume this is with radio off or battery only in a SUC/MUC.

hitechRadio · Sep 10, 2015

radioman2001 said:
What most people don't known is the charging life of a battery is the number of charges not time. Most NiCad and maybe LiOn is 1000 charges. So if you throw the radio in the charger for a top off 2-3 times a day you just shortended your batteries life that many times. Yes the smart chargers help like Impress but it can only do so much. Best practice is to follow manufacturers recommendations, and as NYPD always did remove the battery from the radio BEFORE you were allowed to put it in the charger. I know I get as others have stated here 5-7 years out of my batteries since I let them die before charging.

This is not necessarily true for Liion, here is an estimated DoD (Depth of Discharge) chart in relation to charge cycles.

100% DoD 300 – 500 Cycles

50% DoD 1,200 – 1,500 Cycles

25% DoD 2,000 – 2,500 Cycles

10% DoD 3,750 – 4,700 Cycles

If using a NiMH or NiCad Motorola impress battery and impress charger, the charger should take this deep discharging out of the equation, as the charger performs this automatically. And at the same time recalibrates the information aka(Capacity) of the battery for use with the radio fuel gauge.

The Impres chargers also perform a discharge cycle on Liion Impress batteries, but this is more for calibration reasons. Not memory effect.

If not using Impres and using NiMh or NiCad it is good practice to discharge them from time to time until the radio shuts down, then immediately charge the battery. As you had recommended.

dixie729 · Sep 10, 2015

buddrousa said:
Dixie729 you could always make them pay for batteries that last less than 3 years.
Buy each member a battery engrave their ID into the battery that way the battery is trackable.

All of our trucks have 2 portables per truck, so 12 portables. We only grab them when the runs come in. Us officers have our own. I just replaced all 12 batteries for them. (HT1250 BTW)
It's expensive. I'd hate to see new batteries go to crap.
We have a base radio so there's no need for some one to crank one on and sit there and listen to it but I've yet to figure out as to why some do it.

Sent from my XT1097

buddrousa · Sep 10, 2015

Not knowing your Department run numbers and usage times but the standard discharge rates should put a fully charges battery at 75 to 80% at say 30 days or better so say charge the radios 1 time a month and after run over say 3 hours that way you limit the charge cycles on the batteries and get longer life.

blaze · Sep 11, 2015

WIth Impres chargers, I believe use of the radio in the charger is explicitly supported, at least for XTS & APX radios. They don't recommend it because of slower charge times, and also the inability to do a condition cycle when in this state. But it works, and does not void the Impres warranty.

In fact, The little switch on the bottom of the "shoe" charger was added to to fix a problem with hum when transmitting while charging. One of the recent firmware updates eliminated the need for the switch.

Charging a portable radio while the radio is on.

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