2m / 70cm Antenna install to please Wife and I

So as you may have guessed my wife is giving me trouble over my "hoosie - tenna" as she calls it. I'm unsure about how I want to do a perm install yet, so here is what I have going on:

Current setup: I have a Browning NMO 5/8's mobile antenna, on a browning NMO ground plane base. This is strapped to a 5' length of PVC pipe, which is in turn strapped to an old (slightly rusty) video camera tripod, which is in turn standing on top of my patio table, siting on my deck. I have 100' of cable from Antenna to my basement office (50' is rg-8x , 50 is rg-58). This is adapted to a Baofeng Uv-8hp. At 8 watts (I'm probably outputting around 3-4 watts at the antenna) I'm at least able to get into a couple of different repeaters around 10 miles away.

Future plans: on my list to purchase is a Kenwood TM-71, which I plan to use as a base unit. I want to make a perm antenna install under the following restrictions: there is a city restriction that limits me to no more than 10' above "roof line". In other words I cannot put a 10' tower on top of the roof and then put an 8' antenna on top, the total height above roof line is 10'

My wife wants it to look somewhat professionally done, so no more rusty camera tripods.

Any idea's?

I'm glad I'm divorced ...

Google the "Ventenna" many wives have approved of it.

Best of luck to you though.

73,
n9zas

A dual band J-pole is pretty low profile.

btw, use good coax, any advantage gained by moving the antenna up on the roof will be offset by lossy coax, especially at UHF

Wonderful idea, but at $130 for a dual band, I'm left scratching my head a bit at that kind of price. I'm not the handiest guy in the world but what are they doing so special that warrants that kind of mark-up over what I could buy at my local hardware store and put together at home?

cathmer said:

So as you may have guessed my wife is giving me trouble over my "hoosie - tenna" as she calls it. I'm unsure about how I want to do a perm install yet, so here is what I have going on:

Current setup: I have a Browning NMO 5/8's mobile antenna, on a browning NMO ground plane base. This is strapped to a 5' length of PVC pipe, which is in turn strapped to an old (slightly rusty) video camera tripod, which is in turn standing on top of my patio table, siting on my deck. I have 100' of cable from Antenna to my basement office (50' is rg-8x , 50 is rg-58). This is adapted to a Baofeng Uv-8hp. At 8 watts (I'm probably outputting around 3-4 watts at the antenna) I'm at least able to get into a couple of different repeaters around 10 miles away.

Future plans: on my list to purchase is a Kenwood TM-71, which I plan to use as a base unit. I want to make a perm antenna install under the following restrictions: there is a city restriction that limits me to no more than 10' above "roof line". In other words I cannot put a 10' tower on top of the roof and then put an 8' antenna on top, the total height above roof line is 10'

My wife wants it to look somewhat professionally done, so no more rusty camera tripods.

Any idea's?

Click to expand...

You're getting a lot of loss at 100 ft of cable, not to mention, two different types of cables and multiple connectors. I would splurge for at least better cable or shorter length if it's possible.

As for the Ventenna suggestion, I agree it's a good antenna even for the expensive price. Don't know what they do to make it work, but it works well.

Have you thought about putting something up in the attic? Sometimes that works well too.

I did think about attic install, that would cut about 30-50' off the cable needed, problem is that I tried inside my garage (I can see the underside of the roof in there and put the antenna up there). However I was only able to hit one repeater at 8 miles away, and got "low audio" reports.

With my current "rigged" setup, I've been able to hit everything inside 12 miles so far.

Well I guess I'll have to tell the wife that it's $130 for stealth or thousands for permits, towers, work crews ... Not gonna work.

Naw I'm going to have to home brew something. I wonder if I can make up one of these copper j-poles to look like something else on the roof.... Heck even if it looks like an antenna it won't be over the 10' city restriction anyway

I have two very large (40-50') oak trees, one back yard one front yard, but that would more than double my coax needs

One thing to remember in your selection (and placement) of the new antenna is the definition of roofline height. Generally this would be the highest point on the roof (generally the roof's peak). If you placed an 18' antenna mounted from your house's eves (at the same height of your shingles) and the roof had an 8' rise from there to the peak, you should still be within the 10' limit for your roofline. This would be especially true if that rise hid much of that antenna from the view from the front of your house. While you would have less range in the direction of your roof peak, you should still have generally good performance, especially with the extra gain from the larger antenna.

I agree that a run of new coax (especially something better than 8x or 58) would provide you with even better range. Also, mounting as I indicated would probably allow you to use a shorter run of coax. Use some LMR-400 should do the trick at minimal cost (unless you can find one of those "end of reel" bargains on some LDF4-50A).

If you place that antenna where both the roof and your trees hide it from view, most people won't even know you have it there.

This 10 footer should be good within your limitations. Comet GP-6: Ham & Amateur Radios - Equipment, Parts and Supply | AES

This 18 footer will be even better if you can go with my ideas for placement. Comet GP-9: Ham & Amateur Radios - Equipment, Parts and Supply | AES

Your current coax has a 5.4Db loss if it's good coax. If it's cheap coax maybe even more. Going to 400 LMR will only produce a 1.8Db loss for the 100 ft run. That alone will more than double your power at the antenna. And loss works both ways. You need gain so don't waste your money on a homebrew antenna. A Comet antenna as mentioned above would make a world of difference. I have a Diamond X-50 (4.5dbi gain) antenna in the attic. It's about 5 and a half feet long. The tip is 2 inches below the inside peak of the roof. With a 5 watt HT I could easily hear repeaters 50 miles out. Could work the one out to over 30 miles. Don't worry about getting your antenna to touch the clouds, the first 20 - 25 feet above the ground will make a tremendous improvement. A 20 foot mast of conduit, fence top railing or a push-up pole sitting on the ground will get you up in the air without breaking the bank. Even reducing your current coax down to one 50 ft piece(use the 8x it has less loss) will about double your signal at the antenna.

cathmer said:

However I was only able to hit one repeater at 8 miles away, and got "low audio" reports.

Click to expand...

Audio level doesn't change on FM based on signal strength, so forget about that report. If it's low, it's low no matter what.

Voyager - Yea, I just got my tech, and that was my understanding. As I understand it so far, FM can be thought of *kind of like* a all or nothing, you either "make it" or you don't. However I did get a chance to do some testing with a very kind gentleman, and we were able to figure out that the external Mic I was using is at fault. When I removed it and used just the handheld internal mic I was fine, and also with the included "ear bud" style mic. So word of caution for everyone these $9 Baofeng mic's, just skip it.

FKimble - Can you tell me how you calculated the loss? I can only find online loss calculators that will allow only one type of cable to be input into the calculation. I have no idea how to figure up the loss from sticking two or more types together in series. At first I thought I could just cal each type for 50Ft and add it, but I don't think that is going to be valid. Example: fake numbers for ease - Lets say I output 10 w at the radio and loose 2 watts in the first run of cable, then the 2nd run of cable would have to be calculated based on 8 watt output right??

n5ims - thank you, I have been looking for the def. of "roof line" forever. I really like that 18' antenna, but I think my wife would want to put it somewhere that would get no reception if I purchased it (like my backside)... Unfortunatly, I think I'm going to have to go with the stealthy approach, unless I want to spend even more money to get a new wife LOL !! I think my cheapest option is the stealth antenna. Sounds like they do something special to them that is patented, so I think you're right not worth trying to home brew something up at this point.

Add up the total db losses for each cable and connector and calculate it as one total db loss.
BB

Yes... that coax is killing you due to the length and losses. When you wrote "stealth antenna" in your most recent replies, did you mean the Ventenna? The Ventenna works very well, particularly if you use it with good coax (LMR400 or better). And if using the Ventenna means a shorter coax run, even better. So Ventenna could equal happy wife, stealth, low loss from shorter/better coax, and a rooftop mount for the antenna.

As WA0CBW said figure half of the 100 ft loss for each cable then add the two numbers. Or as I did, I added the two numbers for 100 ft lengths and then divided by 2. Didn't use an "online calculator"

pop- yea the ventenna. Seems like that would be one that I could install myself fairly easily as well. I can only imagine the wrath I'd get if I paid over $200 for an antenna, mounts, more coax, AND had to pay someone to either help me install it, or just do the install.

At least this way I can get the ventenna up, and then swap out the coax a little down the road when this purchase is forgotten ...

Here's another, much less expensive possibility. These antennas are inexpensive and get excellent reviews.

Arrow Antenna J Poles 2m 146 70cm 440 OSJ

- John AC4JK

The Diamond X-50 was mentioned. That's what I have mounted on the eave of my roof. Been there a year and HOA hasn't noticed it. It is fed by 75' of LMR-400 and works quite well.

Nothing against J-Poles but why on earth would a person buy an antenna with no gain when a 5 foot antenna like an X-50 will provide real gain to help make up for the long cable run or losses from attic mounting.

Google edison fong his antenna is $33.00 shipped.

I use this:N9TAX 2 Meter 450 Ohm Ladder Line Slim Jim Antenna Review!. It is hanging from a tree at 70', using LMR-400 coax. I keep it straight by strapping it to a wood dowel that I got from Home Depot. This guy performs WAAAAAAY better than the Comet GP-15, Comet CX-333, and Diamond X200A. I tried all 3 of those antennas at the same height, using the same coax and connectors. My testing was done by swapping out just the antenna, leaving everything else the same. The antenna is being used as part of a Winlink Gateway station. Depending on your needs, this might work for you too. Do some research on ground plane vs j-pole vs slim jim antennas. The significant different between them is the takeoff angle. So, depending on where those repeaters are that you are trying to hit, as well as where you are in reference to them, you will get different results from different types of antennas. Those gain figures you see on the manufacturers websites are not the only ting to consider, and are frequently misleading anyway.

Here is an interesting read that may help you: SLIM JIM ANTENNA PROJECT

73 - David, AG4F