VSP and LE Antennas/Radios and Freqs

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what make and model antennas and frequencies VSP and other local law enforcement agencies are predominantly using for their patrol cars. What types and freqs for 700-800MHZ and GPS antennas.

Also, is it safe to assume that most law enforcement vehicles in VA have a SIRS radio and STARS radio. Why have two different radios? How do the two work together? Why have repeaters in the vehicles. I see reference to 150-160Mhz talk groups, how is the signal from the vehicles taken in and or trunked from 700-800Mhz?

Thank you

STARS is not 700/800 except for their portable site. Its all VHF Hi.

Agencies use a variety of frequencies covering the entire spectrum. Most outside of metro areas seem to be VHF or UHF while Metro seems to fall into the craze for 800 or even 700mhz.

SIRS is in VSP units for interop as no one is on STARS except other state agencies and occasionally patched interop TGs. Supposedly from what I read several years ago the idea was that gateways were going to be set up so local agencies could be patched in as needed to MA or IO TGs but that hasn't happened for the majority of areas.

Instead VSP units seem to have secondary radios in the cars on the local agencies channels. Out here all VSP units working the area have County radios in them which operate on UHF 450 band. I hear them always saying they hear this and that on the county or city radio they have in their unit. Same seems to apply to Rockbridge although I haven't heard any VSP units ever on Botetourt.

Some areas like the Bedford Amherst and I believe Albermarle systems have TGs dedicated on those systems to SIRS.

The repeaters in the vehicles are for extenders which means the officers have 700mhz HTs which transmit to the repeater in the vehicle which then retransmits over the radio on the selected TG being used by the officer and the reverse. Unit radio/TG to repeater to extender.

Its not 150-160mhz TGs but the frequencies used on sites in the STARS system are in the 150-162mhz range. So a site will have a control channel and several voice frequencies for use on that site. There are 60 sites now I believe in the STARS system.

As to SIRS the idea is that VSP and local agencies would be able to communicate with each other as many were on different bands than the VHF Hi VSP was on. You find in some areas it is used such as Rockbridge all the time while other areas don't even bother to turn the radio on.

I'm not sure about local units having SIRS in their vehicles or if its just the agencies which have it in their dispatch centers.

Others can fill in more or correct me here and definitely give you more info on the antennas and such.

A couple of additions:

- about 85% of the dispatch centers in the state are on the COMLINC (Commonwealth Link to Interoperable Communications) system. This is the gateways you were referring to. With them any dispatch center can patch their selected radio channels to any other dispatch center in the state over an internet connection. It isn't used all that often around here but some areas use it more frequently. It also has a text 'chat' function between dispatch centers. The intent was that any local radio channel could be patched to their neighbor regardless of what band they are on and also anyone can be patched with a state channel. The drawback is it uses the internet and takes a couple of steps on both ends to set it up so unless you use it frequently people forget how to use it. And the equipment is getting old in computer years....

- I am pretty sure VSP recently added SIRS to their dispatch centers. That means SIRS is a viable backup system to STARS if there is a problem or a trooper is in a bad coverage area for STARS.

- recently at least some of the troopers have received new dual band (Motorola APX) portables. The new portables have both the 7/800 MHz channels for the vehicle repeater but can also communicate directly on STARS and VHF conventional channels.

- The other antennas you will see on vehicles include cellular extenders, GPS and sometimes WiFi.

Re-reading the initial post it may help to think of STARS as a state agency radio system while SIRS is a statewide law enforcement system. So anyone in LE could be on SIRS while predominately only state users have STARS.

Also STARS is a technology driven system in that it uses digital trunking with computer controllers and lots of repeater sites. So it has a lot of features including the ability to talk statewide (limited users can do this due to frequency availability).

SIRS on the other hand is a low tech solution that is generally direct radio to radio without repeaters or any fancy computer equipment. (Except where it is patched to local systems).

So STARS can do more but is also less resilient than SIRS in my opinion.

SIRS has sort of fallen out of favor. Not many people have it in vehicles anymore and there are few new low band radios. However it has recently seen some resurgence in interest.

Nearson said:

Also, is it safe to assume that most law enforcement vehicles in VA have a SIRS radio and STARS radio. Why have two different radios? How do the two work together?

Click to expand...

John said:

SIRS has sort of fallen out of favor. Not many people have it in vehicles anymore and there are few new low band radios. However it has recently seen some resurgence in interest.

Click to expand...

In some areas, like Charlottesville, the local trunked system has a talkgroup assigned to a SIRS-patch which allows officers to use SIRS 1) without needing a separate SIRS radio in their car, 2) directly from their primary portable radio without dispatcher-assistance (previously not an option), 3) with the clarity of a mountain-top antenna not just a vehicle-antenna. This saves money, and improves convenience and performance...so long as the TRS/SIRS patch works.

Hope this helps,

I appreciate your replies and Thank you very much.

Thank you

Ghstwolf62 said:

... while Metro seems to fall into the craze for 800 or even 700mhz.

Click to expand...

My humble guess for why the Metro areas are on 700/800 MHz:

kb4cvn said:

My humble guess for why the Metro areas are on 700/800 MHz:

Click to expand...

Go ahead and call your region 42 frequency coordinator and request for some VHF channel assignments. Let us know how many you get.

ResQguy said:

Go ahead and call your region 42 frequency coordinator and request for some VHF channel assignments. Let us know how many you get.

Click to expand...

Exactly.... the 800 band was the only one with room to expand a system because it was planned from the beginning. Of course, now it too is crowded so 700 is next best hope.

A lot of this would be better if jurisdictions would release their old VHF and frequencies when they move to 7/800 MHz but it doesn't seem like very many do.

And it isn't just Motorola.... Harris is involved in a lot of these big system too..

Keep in mind the VHF is much better for range than the 800 stuff. That I am sure keeps lots of people on those frequencies.

I can even pick up Rocky Mount from here on their VHF freq and its digital P25 too. That says something while I usually can't pick up Rockbridge on their UHF stuff and I'm on the east end of the county near them.

John said:

A couple of additions:

- about 85% of the dispatch centers in the state are on the COMLINC (Commonwealth Link to Interoperable Communications) system. This is the gateways you were referring to. With them any dispatch center can patch their selected radio channels to any other dispatch center in the state over an internet connection. It isn't used all that often around here but some areas use it more frequently. It also has a text 'chat' function between dispatch centers. The intent was that any local radio channel could be patched to their neighbor regardless of what band they are on and also anyone can be patched with a state channel. The drawback is it uses the internet and takes a couple of steps on both ends to set it up so unless you use it frequently people forget how to use it. And the equipment is getting old in computer years....

- I am pretty sure VSP recently added SIRS to their dispatch centers. That means SIRS is a viable backup system to STARS if there is a problem or a trooper is in a bad coverage area for STARS.

- recently at least some of the troopers have received new dual band (Motorola APX) portables. The new portables have both the 7/800 MHz channels for the vehicle repeater but can also communicate directly on STARS and VHF conventional channels.

- The other antennas you will see on vehicles include cellular extenders, GPS and sometimes WiFi.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware it had that level of penetration. It is not out here anywhere and the closest I've heard of it is down in Roanoke where it seems they have a patch up all the time on one channel.

I think you're right about SIRS being put into VSP dispatch centers. I remember a while back that someone said they were doing that and putting them on repeaters too if I remember correctly.

The only comms out here between state and county are via local radios that have been placed into state vehicles. Ideally having an interop channel set up for all local agencies would be extremely helpful as State runs on a lot of calls out here either as primary or back-up. (All the time) If they don't have a radio then they're SOL except via relay through dispatch.

It gets worse when they go on scene and lose contact with the locals because its a mobile in the unit and the extenders don't work on it.

I know that in Loudoun County, the VSP has SIRS and Loudoun 800Mhz trunked radios. I have on occasion heard a trooper on one of the primary dispatch channels. Loudoun EOC has SIRS and dp call VSP troopers on it for things like accidents. The Fairfax County 800MHz trunked system has one or more patches to the STARS VSP trunked system for the Fairfax area TGs. Fauquier County trunked system has a SIRS patch; I'm more sure if its for RX only or if anyone with that channel can TX since with my limited monitoring of it I've only heard other counties.

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Acronyms

Can anybody explain or give me a run down on some of the acronyms used in this thread. Such as " TG, MA, IO etc." Just a newbie trying to learn the lingo.

Thank you

The Bedford Amhearst TRS has SIRS patched TGs and so does Charlottesville if I remember correctly. Rockbridge EOC uses SIRS all the time to call and communicate with troopers in the vehicles with 131.8 CTCSS.

That's all I pick up out here. Alleghany has the SIRS radio in their dispatch center but does not keep it turned on so doesn't use it.