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VXR-7000 poor receiving

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BlueDevil

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I recently installed my VXR-7000 repeater at a new location with a brand new folded dipole antenna. The repeater has an internal duplexer that was properly tuned when I purchased the radio. The repeater seems to have been operating properly for the last several months. Now the repeater is positioned at a better location with a better antenna and does not seem to be performing as well. It seems to be receiving poorly. When listening to the hang timer it is full quieting and strong signal.

Any quick thoughts or suggestions on what to try or troubleshoot without having to take the radio into a shop?
 

PACNWDude

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I would start with what has changed, position and antenna. Could be a connector or antenna problem. The VXR-7000 is a good repeater. Had one installed in the most mold infested building imaginable. Worked great.
Also doing a forward and reflected power test could help determine if it is working properly. I have seen where the amplifier portion of these has failed. Usually these are the ones with an additional amplifier stage added by Vertex/Motorola.
 
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Which of the following is true?

1. If you are far away from the repeater site, you can hear someone who is close to the site but can't talk back to them.

2. If you are close to the repeater site, you can hear someone who is far away from the repeater site but can't talk back to them.

3. Both you and the other person have to be close to the repeater site to hear each other at all.
 

BlueDevil

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The repeater has difficult receiving a signal from a portable radio unless you are within close proximity to the repeater. Mobile radios have no problem getting into the repeater from distance outside of line of sight. The repeater is transmitting at 50watts and is putting out a very nice and clear carrier with full quieting. The hang timer sounds very nice. The SWR on the antenna is 1.12-1.15. I was able to play with the squelch adjustment today and it seemed to help but I am not real familiar with the adjustments. There are programming adjustments and then advanced squelch threshold adjustments also within the programming and then there is the knob on the radio which adjusts the squelch. I think that I need to fine tune all of these.
 

BlueDevil

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When using a portable radio from a little ways out the audio coming through the other end of the repeater is static filled and difficult to understand however it has a strong carrier/signal strength. If on a portable near the repeater talking to someone on a portable away from the repeater it sounds much better. When both portables are further away from the repeater the audio is weak and static fill however the carrier/signal strength is still strong.
 

BlueDevil

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Well near by is tough to define but I would say no. It is in the middle of a field and completely self contained and powered all on its own. The nearest radio transmitters would have to be a mile or two away but do have a height advantage and a direct line of sight on my location. I am still thinking along the lines of a squelch issue or the receiver is out of alignment or somehow lost its sensitivity.
 
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Okay, it seems to be a problem with receive sensitivity at the repeater.

Can you perform one more test?

Go to the repeater with a portable, and test with someone who has a portable in a location that is very noisy (but is expected to work well). Turn up the volume and listen to them through the speaker on the repeater. While they are talking, press the base/repeater switch so the led above it goes off. Does the other person sound better now?

While you are there, carefully check the cable connections at the duplexer and the repeater to make sure they are tight and that the cables don't wiggle where they go into the connectors.
 

BlueDevil

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I will give this a shot, hopefully tomorrow. I have checked and double checked connections. This is the first time operating the radio with this antenna (4 element folded dipole). I am wondering if the antenna is causing the desense in the radio. I have operated this machine at a different location with a different antenna without any issues. At the previous location there was also more separation between the antenna and the radio itself. This radio does have an internal duplexer so I would need to open up the radio to check the connections. And to provide a little more information is setup to operate solely off of battery power.
 

cmdrwill

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Brandon, maybe a photo of your "four element" antenna and setup.

Let's hope there is no LMR400 coax.
 

FKimble

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When you say the volume is low and staticy but the carrier is strong, this can be normal if the HT is far out. It is having trouble getting into the repeater with a good signal, but what you hear on the receiving end will be low and scratchy but will have a strong signal, because the signal strength is from the repeater, not the HT.
 

12dbsinad

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You could do a simple desense check. Put the repeater in base mode and have someone access it from far out to get a scratchy signal while listening to the speaker on the unit. Then key the repeater transmitter with a hand mic while listening to that scratchy signal. If it goes away or becomes even more scratchy when the repeater is keyed, then you have a desense issue. If nothing changes then you are good.
 

BlueDevil

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So I was able to go out to the repeater site today and send a little time. I notice that the fan on the VXR-7000 runs all the time, is this normal? I shutdown the repeater and connected the antenna to my VX-150 2m radio and using 0.5watts I was able to access repeaters from distances that I had never been able to reach before. I was talking to people in town on simplex and they could hear me well they were talking back on handheld. Their signals were strong however the audio was a little weak. I turned the base mode on and listened to the input and it sounded poorly. I didn't try to transmit at the same time. That will be another good test. I turned the repeater down to low power and am leaving it at that setting for some testing in town. Still seems like there are a lot of variables left so I am still struggling with that direction to go or what to do. I thought that this was going to operate much better than it has. I did notice that there seems to be A LOT of RF Noise in the area but only on certain frequencies. Seems like it's full strength interference or not interference at all. I am trying to run the 4 element folded dipole in a configuration that would provide 180 degree coverage area. I need more than directional but omni is too much. I am also using LMR400, is this a no-no!?

Here are some pictures of what I have setup... Be kind!

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BlueDevil

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It seems to be doing a little better today... Not sure what has changed.
 

W0JJK

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LMR cable can cause issues when used in repeaters.

Do you have access to a service monitor?
 

BlueDevil

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I don't have a service monitor. I really wish I did! I would like to get one but not sure exactly what to get, don't have a lot of money to spend on one, and would need to know how to use it.
 

cmdrwill

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I don't have a service monitor. I really wish I did! I would like to get one but not sure exactly what to get, don't have a lot of money to spend on one, and would need to know how to use it.

Find a local friend who does have a service monitor and other tools to check your repeater.

I am way too far away....
 

MTS2000des

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This radio does have an internal duplexer so I would need to open up the radio to check the connections.

In my experience, depending on the split between TX and RX, the atypical internal duplexer for VHF is a POS unless you have at least 8-10MHz of TX/RX separation.

A repeater's performance is HIGHLY dependent on the quality and tuning of the filtering system.


I shutdown the repeater and connected the antenna to my VX-150 2m radio and using 0.5watts I was able to access repeaters from distances that I had never been able to reach before. I was talking to people in town on simplex and they could hear me well they were talking back on handheld.

And of course this would work well, as you aren't keying a transmitter into the same antenna while receiving. :D The duplexers and other filtering and choice of feedline/antenna become critical when you want to use the same antenna to transmit and receive simultaneously.

Find a local friend who does have a service monitor and other tools to check your repeater.

^^This.

Getting a repeater to work properly requires a service monitor with a tracking generator, and the right combination of filtering (duplexers/pre-selector if needed) and good quality feedline and antenna.

LMR is not the go-to for duplex operation.

Without the right tools and equipment, you are peeing in the wind. Try to reach out to someone in your area with the right tools and skills to assist you. It is not something that can be accomplished on an Internet message board.
 

BlueDevil

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I will switch out the LMR400 coax. I am running a 5.26MHz split. I don't know anyone who has a service monitor otherwise I would have already exhausted that option. I have been trying simple in the field troubleshooting techniques to help narrow down what the issue(s) may be. This has been a really good project for me and a great learning experience. People go in debt and spend tens of thousands of dollars to try and obtain an education so they can work in their respective field. Often times what they learn doesn't prepare them for their career at all. I don't want to just burn money but the cost of this education is much more appealing than just paying someone to come out and do it for me.
 
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