Having Trouble Picking Up the East Valley

I have an HP-1 (not extreme) and lately I am unable to hear agencies in the east valley. In the past, I have picked up Gilbert PD and Mesa PD and would love to hear Chandler PD but haven't.

Everything on the device is fully updated and checking the profile for my scanner shows that I have the 700MHz frequencies in there. I'm not really sure what's going on. I'm located in North Scottsdale and pick up the west valley with zero problems - Peoria PD, Surprise PD, etc. (However now that I think about it, I don't get Glendale PD anymore). I also only get one Phoenix PD precinct and that is Black Mountain.

I have a pretty large antenna and I get clear transmissions from Globe, Tucson, Casa Grande, Pima County, etc., so I'm not convinced that is the issue.

Can anyone give me some advice? As much as I enjoy the West Valley, I know far more officers in the East.

73
N7IFU

N7IFU said:

I have an HP-1 (not extreme) and lately I am unable to hear agencies in the east valley. In the past, I have picked up Gilbert PD and Mesa PD and would love to hear Chandler PD but haven't.

Everything on the device is fully updated and checking the profile for my scanner shows that I have the 700MHz frequencies in there. I'm not really sure what's going on. I'm located in North Scottsdale and pick up the west valley with zero problems - Peoria PD, Surprise PD, etc. (However now that I think about it, I don't get Glendale PD anymore). I also only get one Phoenix PD precinct and that is Black Mountain.

I have a pretty large antenna and I get clear transmissions from Globe, Tucson, Casa Grande, Pima County, etc., so I'm not convinced that is the issue.

Can anyone give me some advice? As much as I enjoy the West Valley, I know far more officers in the East.

73
N7IFU

Click to expand...

There is a fair chance that such listening difficulties are related to active changes being made by the RWC at this time. However, you could, in Sentinel:

> "File"
> "Export to hpe file..."
> "Choose the FL" containing your East Valley programming
> "OK"
> "Select Systems"
> "OK"
> "Name" and "Save" your hpe File (I Save to Desktop)
> Pop Up Frame indicating success "OK"
> Find your saved hpe File (Windows Explorer or Desktop)
> "Right Click" on it
> "Send to"
> "Compressed (zipped) folder" (a new zipped Folder/File should appear near the hpe File).

Next:

> "Reply" to a Post in this Thread
> Find your saved zipped hpe Folder/File (Windows Explorer or Desktop)
> "Attach" the zipped up hpe Folder/File to that Reply
> "Post Reply".

I imagine someone will open the attachment, unzip it, send it to Sentinel, take a look at it, and maybe even make a comment.

Excellent advice there from, rwier. It does make things a lot easier. And it also provides ALMOST all the details. I will say that I had to do some minor antenna moves after the New Simulcast B went live. But if this person is picking up all those area's, I can not believe that is the issue.

rwier said:

There is a fair chance that such listening difficulties are related to active changes being made by the RWC at this time. However, you could, in Sentinel:

> "File"
> "Export to hpe file..."
> "Choose the FL" containing your East Valley programming
> "OK"
> "Select Systems"
> "OK"
> "Name" and "Save" your hpe File (I Save to Desktop)
> Pop Up Frame indicating success "OK"
> Find your saved hpe File (Windows Explorer or Desktop)
> "Right Click" on it
> "Send to"
> "Compressed (zipped) folder" (a new zipped Folder/File should appear near the hpe File).

Next:

> "Reply" to a Post in this Thread
> Find your saved zipped hpe Folder/File (Windows Explorer or Desktop)
> "Attach" the zipped up hpe Folder/File to that Reply
> "Post Reply".

I imagine someone will open the attachment, unzip it, send it to Sentinel, take a look at it, and maybe even make a comment.

Click to expand...

It's been a lonngggggg time since I have Zipped something and not RAR'd it... Thank you for the advice. Attached is what I have for the two systems...

tipster67 said:

Excellent advice there from, rwier. It does make things a lot easier. And it also provides ALMOST all the details. I will say that I had to do some minor antenna moves after the New Simulcast B went live. But if this person is picking up all those area's, I can not believe that is the issue.

Click to expand...

Uploaded it in the above post...hope I did it right. "This person" does receive a lot of those west valley transmissions but so far nothing from the east valley other than Scottsdale PD where I live (if that's even the east valley).

I was initially using the rubber duck and was getting good but not great results. Then I broke out the relatively large 2m/70cm antenna and I have been able to hear just about every corner of the state.

My question here might be helpful in determining my issue....was the Simulcast B change updated in the database on RR/HomePatrol, because that's all I did to update the scanner. I didn't do it manually so I wouldn't be surprised if it's still scanning the 800MHz frequencies.

Well, I'm having a problem getting the "unzipped" .hpe into Sentinel. In Sentinel, I get as far as the "Open" Screen showing both "unzipped" hpe Files (in a unzipped Folder) Selecting either one results in an elaborate Failure Message. I have, with each .hpe File, made sure that "Full" Permissions" are set for all users. I also made sure the warning about the File/Folder being from another computer was set to "Ignore":

After several "failed" attempts, I noticed that whenever I return to the "unzipped" Folder, the "Read Only" box is checked. It will not stay unchecked. This gave me an idea. I moved both "unzipped" Files from the "unzipped" Folder to the Desktop. Then I deleted the "unzipped" (problem) Folder. The two "unzipped" Files have never shown the "Read Only" box checked.

Retrying to Sentinel to " Import an hpe File", Shazam!!! Both unzipped hpe Files are now in their new Folder in Sentinel.

This post is only info for anyone having the same problem trying to get these hpe Files into Sentinel. I will post my analysis/results of the use of these files in my HP-1 at a later date.

Site Strength, and Site Quality results for TRS (RWC): Sites to delete due to weak or non-existent signal:

1) Outlet Mall/New River IR
2) Quintero IR
3) Sacaton Mountain High
4) Simulcast A: (That was a surprise to me, not a whisker of signal strength or quality)
5)Simulcast C: Chandler (Sorry, signal strength irregular. Varies in time as, on a ten scale, 0/50%, 1/40%, and 2/10% (max). I know from experience, that nothing will be heard here.)
6) Simulcast F: Tempe (Same as "C")
7) Simulcast G: West Valley (Interesting. Signal Strength varying between 6 and 8, which normally results in unbroken transmissions. However. not a whisker on the "quality" scale. It is as if "G" is transmitting a very strong signal that is not recognized as digital simulcast P-25.)
8) Simulcast H: Scottsdale (Same as "A:", not a sign of life.)
9) Simulcast J: Buckeye (Ditto, not a sign of life.)
Sky Harbor IR (Ditto, not a sign of life.)

This leaves seven Sites registering satisfactorily (me/subjective) for attempted monitoring of TRS (RWC).
_____________________________________________________________________________

Some comments related to TRS (RWC) Sites:

Normally (for me), a very satisfactory Site/Tower varies in strength (6/10-9/10, with occasional quick (.1 second) drops to zero, with quality varying between 90% and 100%. Thompson Peak is setting on 70% strength, and hasn't flinched for 5 minutes, and quality hasn't budged from 100% during this time. Don't know if that info will help anyone, just saying.)

Towers Mountain High (I'm not sure where that is. Maybe up above Crown King?) is holding very steady at strength 3.5/10 with quality stuck solid at 100%. Again, just saying.

White Tanks rock steady strength at 6.5/10 and rock steady quality at 100%.
___________________________________________________________________________________

Site Strength, and Site Quality results for TRS (TRWC): Sites to delete due to weak or non-existent signal:

Mesa Simulcast Dead as a doornail.

This leaves two Sites to monitor for the TRS (TRWC)
___________________________________________________________________________________

Other observations: Uploading to the scanner and selecting only the “Experiment for RR Forum” FL for scanning, the scanner shows “Loading 343 Channels”. With this large number loaded, I would guess that, depending on the amount of activity of the Channels, anywhere from 10% to 90% of all transmissions will be missed, while the scanner is stopped on an active channel. It is late Friday night. I have set the scanner to “Record”. I will let it run for 48 hours and report what it heard.

rwier said:

Other observations: Uploading to the scanner and selecting only the “Experiment for RR Forum” FL for scanning, the scanner shows “Loading 343 Channels”. With this large number loaded, I would guess that, depending on the amount of activity of the Channels, anywhere from 10% to 90% of all transmissions will be missed, while the scanner is stopped on an active channel. It is late Friday night. I have set the scanner to “Record”. I will let it run for 48 hours and report what it heard.

Click to expand...

Thank you for all the work you're doing in order to help. I do appreciate it.

I will add that I generally scan the full database and don't operate on a favorites list...that said, I suppose I don't really scan at all. I pick an agency and lock it. I have done that with Gilbert, Mesa, Glendale, all of Phoenix PD, and Chandler and have not heard a peep (lately). When I first got the device, I heard all but Chandler.

Any ideas? It's kind of aggravating having $400 tied-up in a device that I can only use to listen to 1% of my area's agencies...

I have tried everything. I even went through and set the location for every site to 1.0 and it still won't pick up anything other than the following from RWC (nothing from TRWC):

PHXPD Black Mountain
PHX Fire K1
Scottsdale PD North/South

Nothing else comes from RWC (I only have Fire-Dispatch, Interop, and all the Law-related services selected).

Still picking up Globe, Kingman, Pinal County, etc. just fine. Also heard the DPS Kingman district perfectly clearly this evening (although that is not trunked).

Just remembered, took a look, and still recording as posted (muted). Will let it run until tomorrow and massage the results and report. Interested if I can get anything from TRWC.

Also, it easy for me to forget (nearly anything) that I am trying to monitor using programming created by another. The only changes I have made are ones of elimination. I have removed Sites with insufficient signal and TGs that I don't believe are East Valley related. After looking at the results, I will take a comprehensive look at all settings in these TRSs and apply changes as necessary. Then I will try the monitoring again. This may expose changes for you to make at your end.

Ok, copying data from the "user_rec" Folder located in the HP-1 (E) Scanner to a folder on the "Desktop".

17,183 Files, in 173 Folders!

I suspect that these Files contain some information as to TRSs, Sites, Departments, and TGs that is in a text format. If so, I will try to make sense of it. I may try to post any such text data here in the Forum. Then, by request, I will listen to individual files as directed by the Forum Members, and report what they contain. Should have another report by late afternoon.

The simulcast sites are notoriously difficult to receive due to multipath interference. An outside, directional antwnna, aimed properly, may be your only option. And if you want to listen to both the RWC and TRWC, you may need more than one antenna, and more than one scanner.

John
Peoria

After a cursory examination of the text portions of the audio recordings, I noted that 90%-95% are TGs (Files) associated with the Phoenix PD Precincts. I am sure that they contain no new and exciting information. Therefore, I am in the process of deleting them, a process that may not be complete for a few days. I believe this will result in a remainder of Files that will be much more manageable.

KB7MIB said:

The simulcast sites are notoriously difficult to receive due to multipath interference. An outside, directional antwnna, aimed properly, may be your only option. And if you want to listen to both the RWC and TRWC, you may need more than one antenna, and more than one scanner.

John
Peoria

Click to expand...

My attempts to monitor the TWRC are only an attempt to help a fellow RR Member (as explained in great detail earlier in this thread). I also acknowledged that I don't expect much success in said venture. I have never "previously" attempted to monitor the TRWC from my home location.

I very much appreciate your help, Rob!

John: That seems like overkill for a system whose sites I don't really live that far from. I receive Scottsdale PD clear as day (notwithstanding the pretty awful decoding done by the HP-1), as well as a few others. I just don't receive the east valley or some of the central/west valley.

I turned on some additional service types the other day and heard some things I didn't know existed on the RWC.

N7IFU said:

I very much appreciate your help, Rob!

John: That seems like overkill for a system whose sites I don't really live that far from. I receive Scottsdale PD clear as day (notwithstanding the pretty awful decoding done by the HP-1), as well as a few others. I just don't receive the east valley or some of the central/west valley.

I turned on some additional service types the other day and heard some things I didn't know existed on the RWC.

Click to expand...

You know how it sounds on simplex or a conventional repeater when two or more people key up at the same time? With simulcast systems, that's what our scanners here all the time in the data stream. A directional antenna can sometimes help with that, by isolating all but one site from being received.

If you can't receive certain sites, it's either due to multipath interference, or too great a distance from it.

John
Peoria

KB7MIB said:

You know how it sounds on simplex or a conventional repeater when two or more people key up at the same time? With simulcast systems, that's what our scanners here all the time in the data stream. A directional antenna can sometimes help with that, by isolating all but one site from being received.

If you can't receive certain sites, it's either due to multipath interference, or too great a distance from it.

John
Peoria

Click to expand...

It doesn't appear to be the latter but I won't rule it out completely. I'm not well-versed enough to understand how to eliminate such interference. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Dustin

N7IFU said:

I will add that I generally scan the full database and don't operate on a favorites list...that said, I suppose I don't really scan at all. I pick an agency and lock it. I have done that with Gilbert, Mesa, Glendale, all of Phoenix PD, and Chandler and have not heard a peep (lately).

Click to expand...

The HP1 is quirky on how it chooses sites when you hold. I will need to double check, but if I recall correctly, it will hold on a single site when you hold on a system or channel. The problem is that it may hold on the incorrect site that does not carry the talkgroups you are looking for. Also, when holding on a System or Channel for prolonged periods it will also sometimes change to a different site if there is a dropout in signal.

Try holding on a department, and I believe it will continue to monitor all sites that are not avoided.

Also, when was the last time you updated the DB in the Sentinal software and wrote it to the scanner? Mesa's TRWC changed frequencies a few months back. If it has been more then a year, then Chandler's RWC Simulcast C changed frequencies since then.