CDOT listening

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captaincraig44

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Is there a resource that breaks down what CDOT sections/identifiers operate in what part of the state? Specifically, I'm looking for TG's to monitor on a DEN-COS drive via I-25 on Thanksgiving Day to get an idea of road conditions and accidents. Of course I have CSP and local law enforcement/fire already programmed.

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Spitfire8520

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It's distributed among many different files, which can be found at CDOT-OTIS Online Transportation Information System | Home. You find it under MAPS and selecting Maintenance Section Map in the pull down menu. The Statewide Maps section also has several different version of the overall view of their Maintenance Sections.

For your purposes:

2506: 5M - 120th Ave to 6th Ave
2309: 5J - 6th Ave to Hampton Ave
2504: 5L - Hampton Ave to Palmer Divide
2514: 4K - Palmer Divide to south of Fountain
 

captaincraig44

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Thanks for that link and info. That was exactly what I was looking for. I don't know if I would have had the time to find that with three little kids in the house. One more follow up, does CDOT ever do the TG patching like CSP does? I'm using a 436, which of course doesn't follow the TG patching like the GREs do.
 

natedawg1604

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Just FYI, CDOT is probably the worst agency in Colorado when it comes to "consistent" radio usage practices. And yes, they do a fair amount of patching, albeit not quite to the same extent as CSP. For starters, there is no such thing as a "CDOT dispatch center", or even a dedicated CDOT "dispatcher", at least not in the normal sense of the term.

Yes, there are numerous Dispatch Consoles throughout Colorado linked to hundreds, if not several thousand, CDOT DTRS radios programmed with many, many CDOT talkgroups used throughout Colorado. However, there is virtually no consistency in anything CDOT does. A lot of this may be due to either (1) lack of resources, or (2) improper utilization of resources, or perhaps both.

State Patrol's Denver Dispatch center frequently acts as the "primary" dispatcher for CDOT-related calls in the Denver Metro Area. However, CSP has no authority to "order" CDOT employees to do anything, they can only make "requests" (at least that's my impression based on a lot of listening). And, during bad weather or huge traffic backups, many agencies ask CSP to immediately dispatch CDOT trucks to various locations, and CSP in turn relays a massive amount of "requests" to CDOT, often far in excess of what they seemingly are able to handle.

It's also my impression CDOT employees either (a) receive virtually no training whatsoever in radio usage practices, and/or (b) have very, very little interest in following any identifiable "protocol" for radio usage. For example, you will NEVER hear a CDOT truck announce their call sign and associated vehicle number or employee ID number at the beginning of a shift. AFAIK, no dispatcher has a dispatch screen which shows CDOT Employee John Smith assigned to Truck No. XYZ and Radio ID ABC in Area D for Shift 2. Presumably, this might stem from the fact that there is no "in-house" CDOT dispatcher who regularly "dispatches" CDOT trucks to particular calls, and thus they have no particular need to follow any "official" radio usage practices.

Frequently you will hear a frustrated CSP dispatcher flipping through 4-8 CDOT radio channels looking for ANY CDOT truck; when they finally raise someone, half the time the CDOT truck who finally answers insists they are not in the relevant CDOT "area", and instruct the dispatcher to switch to another radio channel that nobody seems to be monitoring. CDOT does have an internal "area" assignment system, but AFAIK it's not fully documented in any publicly-available document/publication (assuming such a publication exists at all, which I've come to doubt). I've previously heard CSP Dispatchers themselves complaining about not having accurate maps of the various CDOT "areas". Again, however, even if you had "official" documentation/maps about the relationship between regions, areas and radio call signs, it may be of limited utility given the (seemingly perpetual) lack of consistency in CDOT's resource allocation practices.

All that being said, you can learn a lot from the maps Spitfire referenced, but there are still gaps which can only be filled by careful monitoring.

Also, it can be difficult to discern the proper alga tag for a particular CDOT talkgroup; Aside from patching, you don't always know whether the CDOT unit claiming to be talking on Channel X is actually transmitting on the TG assigned by the radio shop as Talkgroup X, or if they are "mistakenly" talking on Talkgroup Y. And again, because there is no regular in-house CDOT dispatcher, you will rarely (if ever) hear any dispatcher announce that someone is talking on the wrong channel, and to instruct units to switch to the "correct" channel.

Actually, I suppose there is an "exception" to this: a few months ago, a CDOT employee somehow was using a Radio programmed with a CSP 1-Adam dispatch talkgroup (arguably the first mistake), and said CDOT employee (1) mistakenly had their radio set to a CSP dispatch channel which they had no reason to ever use, and (2) left their radio mic open on that channel for at least 15 minutes. As I recall, they couldn't get ahold of the CDOT employee with the open mic, and they had to actually disable to the radio in question, in order to resume normal traffic on that channel.
 
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Spitfire8520

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One more follow up, does CDOT ever do the TG patching like CSP does? I'm using a 436, which of course doesn't follow the TG patching like the GREs do.

That is an excellent question that I did not think about. I don't personally monitor CDOT myself so I'm going off some of the logs I've seen. Doing that also made me realize that I omitted a couple of important talkgroups as well.

In the recent month, the CDOT's Section specific TGs appear to be patched very rarely when CSP is talking to them directly on their TG. Most of the time CSP communicates with the CDOT units using their Highway TG. This TG is also where CSP will air reported traffic hazards and requests for CDOT units.

Since this is CSP we are talking about, the Highway TGs are the ones that you may see patched most often.

So additional TGs that would be good to listen to are:
2500: Highway 5 - Occasionally patched to Highway 1 (2491)
2508: Highway 4 East
2515: Highway 4 West

I don't know which Highway 4 TG specifically covers I-25, so I listed both of them just to be safe. Hopefully someone who does listen to CDOT will be able to fine tune what I've laid out.

Now if CDOT's radio practices are really as bad as Nate pointed out, there's not much that can be done with monitoring them short of programming all of Section 4 & 5, and perhaps more.
 

captaincraig44

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Thanks again for all the info. I rarely listen to CDOT myself, but when I do, I have noticed that their radio discipline is pretty much non-existent. I've programmed every TG that I think may carry traffic that I'd be interested in so hopefully I've got what I need. Here's hoping for an under-performing storm system tonight into tomorrow!
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 

n0nhj

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CDOT Setup

I'll try to clarify the bits that I'm aware of. Most of my monitoring is western Colorado.

For much of the state there is a dispatch or another for CDOT.
Not every unit always goes on and off duty, particularly when they have a lot of staffing.
Typically for the CDOT staffed centers, you'll hear the supervisors go on and off, but not the individual plow/work trucks, unless they have been called out for a specific need.

Eisenhower Tunnel Control is the CDOT dispatch for much of the area around it. (Summit/Clear Creek)
'Hanging Lake' near Glenwood Springs dispatches much of the western slope.

The original design of the talkgroup layout for CDOT was based around:

* HIGHWAY x is the talkgroup that the dispatch centers monitor. In some cases (Like Section 4) they have two talkgroups (east & west). This would normally be the only TG that the dispatch would leave the volume turned up on.

* HIGHWAY xy is the working talkgroup i.e.: HWY 2K would be the talkgroup that the local plow trucks on I-70, Colorado 82, 133 around Glenwood Springs would be talking among themselves, and normally monitor.

* HIGHWAY xy tac are additional channels for those areas and see more use during the summer when they have lots of construction going on.

So, a truck working CO Highway 82 between Basalt and Aspen is in 'patrol 16' and would normally be on the 2K 8020 Talkgroup. The supervisor/lead person would usually be the 2K16 call sign, the additional personnel in out of that shop are usually call signs with the dash i.e.: 2K16 -1 or usually just two king sixteen one. 2K16-2, etc. If Hanging Lake needs to tell them about an accident or sand request they will typically come up on the HWY 2K talkgroup and call either the supervisor if they are on, or 'any 2K16 unit'.

If the CDOT unit comes across a crash, or has cleaned up something they were sent to, etc., they will switch over to the HWY x talkgroup (or in my 2K16 example the HLT 8018 TG) and call the dispatch center there. Once they are done, they usually go back to the patrol TG.

This allows them to jabber on about who has plowed what, and lining up for multiple plows in a single pass, etc, without the dispatch center turning down the TG and missing them calling, since they normally only listen to the section TG, not all the individual patrol TGs.

The radio numbers are based on the areas they work

The Highway xxx is usually a higher level supervisor responsible for the entire maintenance section, or specialty in that section.

The xy1 is usually the supervisor for the entire sub section (in my example above 2K1 is the supervisor for eastern Garfield, and all of Pitkin County, 2K2 is the asst supervisor).

Units ending in 90's are usually mechanics that work throughout the section, covering several patrol shops.

I can't speak for the Denver CSP dispatch center, but for most of the rest of the state it seems to work pretty well, from what I've heard.

Chuck
 
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