New P25 System...I'm Lost

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KD2DXF

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Hello, I'm new to digital, as well as most everyone else in Lewis County now. New EF Johnson p25 system went into place. and im trying to program my new 996xt to properly decode and track.
I programmed in the frequencies as p25 trunk, and its receiving the site ID, and will briefly for a slit second flip to the voice channel, but then immediately goes back to control channel. TG's are not known yet, so I didn't program in any, just i0 for i-calls
I programmed in the frequencies in a separate system as conventional p25, with the CC locked out and I can hear the P25 transmissions.
What am i Doing wrong with the trunked system that it won't track?
 

KD2DXF

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Update: I think its an issue with the band plan. This is a UHF site, but it is showing a band plan for 7/800 Mhz?
The radio attempts to go to the voice channel, but goes to an 800 mhz channel, where there's nothing, so goes back to control channel...
Anyone else run into this?
 

Voyager

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It sounds like it's encrypted.

The bandplan on P25 systems comes from the system, so that is not the issue.

Wait - and EFJ system? It might be an implicit system which DOES need the "bandplan" (one frequency per slot). Those are unlike standard P25 systems.

You are using ID SEARCH, right?
 

KD2DXF

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It sounds like it's encrypted.

The bandplan on P25 systems comes from the system, so that is not the issue.

Wait - and EFJ system? It might be an implicit system which DOES need the "bandplan" (one frequency per slot). Those are unlike standard P25 systems.

You are using ID SEARCH, right?

Not encrypted. I can listen to the conversations with the simulcast frequencies programmed in conventional mode.
Yes to ID Search. It is decoding the CC, but when it directs the scanner to go to a voice channel, its in the 800 Mhz range. which isnt right for UHF System.
EF Johnson did the upgrade, how do I figure the band plan?
 

Voyager

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If it's an Implicit system, each frequency will be a "table" (think of it like an LCN - EFJ just can't get away from those). You can program one of them in the first table and see if it works. If not, try it in the second table. Once the "LCN" of that frequency is found, move on to the next frequency. You can skip any tables for which the frequency is found.

I would start with trying the frequencies in order (Table/LCN 1 = lowest freq, 2 = next lowest, Etc.)
 

KD2DXF

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If it's an Implicit system, each frequency will be a "table" (think of it like an LCN - EFJ just can't get away from those). You can program one of them in the first table and see if it works. If not, try it in the second table. Once the "LCN" of that frequency is found, move on to the next frequency. You can skip any tables for which the frequency is found.

I would start with trying the frequencies in order (Table/LCN 1 = lowest freq, 2 = next lowest, Etc.)

I did some searching as well, and seems that overtime, the 996XT will overwrite the custom bandplan anyway. Similar to EDACS or less...just a matter of figuring the correct LCN=frequency line up and programming into the band plan, starting with plan 0, and going up?

to the other commenter, yes this is a 450Mhz system.
 

KD2DXF

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First image is UniTrunker. Has correct CC, but cant figure out the other LCN
Second image is from Pro96Com, which shows that its listening to 800Mhz, even though the scanner is on 453.3125 decoding...
 

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cg

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My guess for a custom band plan would be:
Base 451.00000
Step 6.25

That would give the following frequencies:
453.15000
453.26250
453.31250
453.36250
453.55000

There is something with the 396XT/996XT era scanners that causes the band plan to be overwritten with EFJohnson P25 systems. Waterbury CT does the same thing.

chris
 

KD2DXF

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My guess for a custom band plan would be:
Base 451.00000
Step 6.25

That would give the following frequencies:
453.15000
453.26250
453.31250
453.36250
453.55000

There is something with the 396XT/996XT era scanners that causes the band plan to be overwritten with EFJohnson P25 systems. Waterbury CT does the same thing.

chris

Yeah I was reading up on the CT system, I'll give the 451.000 a try. do I have to put that in just 0 slot, or do it for all the slots?
Whats making this even harder, is this is a rural county...not alot of radio traffic to test with

EDIT: It worked. now properly tracking. Thanks
 
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cg

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Just watch for it to revert back.

The Waterbury system is beyond my reception range but I had taken several road trips to map the odd band plan when it went into service. It would be fine for several hours of monitoring and the next trip I would have to fix it once or twice. There was initially some interest from Uniden to have a way to lock the custom band plan but that faded after a short while.

chris
 

KD2DXF

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I'm Programming this for a family. I dont live in Lewis County, only visit a few times a month.
My solution to the band plan revert, is to program the same simulcast frequencies conventionally, and set for digital only. So when they do lose the bandplan, a punch of 2 numbers will turn off trunk, and scan conventionally, which seemed to work fine while i was trying to find out the system.
Theyre not technically inclined, otherwise id show them how to fix it.
Is this isolated to the XT Models, or does the HP models present the same issue?
Also, is there any rhythm of how often the 996XT over rides the custom bandplan?
 
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cg

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I was trying to figure out what caused the change by Pro96com and Unitrunker logs but there was nothing obvious to me. I had emailed Paul from Uniden as he had seemed interested but never heard back.

Programming/changing a custom band plan by hand is fairly simple. You could make up a cheat sheet that could be followed easily.

Try:
MENU button
PROGRAM SYSTEM
Turn dial until you get to the system in question.
ENTER (you can either press the dial or hit enter)
Choose "Edit Site".
ENTER
Select the site
ENTER
Scroll to "Edit Band Plan"
ENTER
You want "Custom"
ENTER
Choose "Band Plan 1"
ENTER
Choose "Set Base Freq"
ENTER
key in "451.0000"
ENTER
Key in "454.0000" (this number doesn't matter as long as it is above the highest system frequency).
ENTER
Choose "Set Spacing"
Choose "6.25"
ENTER
Hit SCAN to exit and resume scanning

chris
 

KD2DXF

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UPMan?

Has anyone determined if this EF Johnson custom band plan issue is isolated to Uniden, or to the 396/996T/XT Series? I'd take the new 536HP as long as you can manually set the band plan, and not change...
 

cg

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Perhaps it was in the Waterbury thread, I recall reading that the newest scanners had no issues. I think it was only the 396T/396XT/996T/996XT models.

chris
 

KevinC

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Has anyone determined if this EF Johnson custom band plan issue is isolated to Uniden, or to the 396/996T/XT Series? I'd take the new 536HP as long as you can manually set the band plan, and not change...

Perhaps it was in the Waterbury thread, I recall reading that the newest scanners had no issues. I think it was only the 396T/396XT/996T/996XT models.

chris

I'm going to speculate the x36-series has the same issue. Since you can't make the radio ignore the OTA bandplan info, it will get written over every time you manually enter it.

The GRE/Whistler-based units have a "P25 Manual" system that will make the radio ignore the OTA info and only use what you manually enter.
 

Voyager

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If the issue is the EFJ Implicit system type, there is no OTA bandplan sent. Use the programming CG mentioned in post 13.

This is not an issue with the Uniden scanners. I've used Ts, XTs, and newer on that system type.
 

KD2DXF

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If the issue is the EFJ Implicit system type, there is no OTA bandplan sent. Use the programming CG mentioned in post 13.

This is not an issue with the Uniden scanners. I've used Ts, XTs, and newer on that system type.

The issue is with the Uniden Scanner as well, if they do not allow you to override the ota band plan. I'm aware that EF Johnson doesn't send the band plan, but the Scanner, should be able to be programmed for manual. Apparently other brands allows the user to manually set a band plan that stays.
 

KevinC

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I'm going to speculate the x36-series has the same issue. Since you can't make the radio ignore the OTA bandplan info, it will get written over every time you manually enter it.

The GRE/Whistler-based units have a "P25 Manual" system that will make the radio ignore the OTA info and only use what you manually enter.

If the issue is the EFJ Implicit system type, there is no OTA bandplan sent. Use the programming CG mentioned in post 13.

This is not an issue with the Uniden scanners. I've used Ts, XTs, and newer on that system type.

Ok, how about this...The Uniden's interpret something in the EFJ OTA data as a bandplan and overwrite what you manually enter.

On the other hand, EFJ could send a legitimate (albeit incorrect for the system) bandplan OTA, but their radios completely ignore it...hmm...

Either way, it has been proven that on the Waterbury system, if you manually enter a bandplan it will be overwritten with one that doesn't work.
 

Voyager

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I checked my x36 Sentinel, and the bandplan (more like LCNs) are there for such a system.

I checked the programming in the scanner. The bandplan (LCNs) is there, and it is correct.
 
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