Monitoring Essex County Fire with an XPR 6550?

I have an XPR 6550 that I own and use primarily for work.

As far as I can tell, there are several Essex County Fire Agencies who are utilizing a Connect+ system. From what I've read here so far, it is possible to passively monitor a Connect+ system by programming the talk groups into a conventional scan list.

Has anyone done this/able to provide more detailed instructions on what is required?

Cheers,

- A

i could be mistaken if some one can confirm this with it being a capacity plus trunking system and if it the same with other trunking systems i think your radio id would have to be affiliate with the system and you risk getting zapped by the system administrator

VE3JSO said:

i could be mistaken if some one can confirm this with it being a capacity plus trunking system and if it the same with other trunking systems i think your radio id would have to be affiliate with the system and you risk getting zapped by the system administrator

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The system is not Capacity Plus - it is Connect Plus. In order to affiliate with a Connect Plus system, you need the Connect Plus option board + entitlement key (neither of which are in my radio).

What has been suggested (somewhere on this forum, although I can't find the exact reference at the moment) was that you could take the talk groups and put them into a conventional scan list as a way to monitor some of these Connect+ systems.

It would be similar to monitoring a conventional, analogue trunked system by programming in the frequencies in a conventional scan list; although with TRBO it is (apparently) possibly to make your radio only unmute for certain talk groups while doing this.

I'll continue to search for the original post that detailed this method. But if anyone has any tips/suggestions or better yet, has actually done this with this system, I'd be curious.

Cheers,

- A

In order to scan a Connect Plus system you'd need to scan every voice frequency in conventional TRBO mode with whatever talkgroup you wanted to hear. Keep in mind that every frequency would need to be scanned twice (two time slots per frequency). Motorola for some archaic reason only allows you to scan 15 channels, so you'd be limited to a system with 7 voice channels (or 8, assuming one of the timeslots is always transmitting a control channel).

The Windsor site for example, has 12 channels - or 24 timeslots. You could not scan using this method without missing some comms.

However in the same area, if you're in range, you could easily scan the Amherstburg, Harrow, Essex, Tecumseh or Belle River sites quite easily using this method. Given that each of the FD's using this TRBO system are right near one of these smaller sites, it should probably work quite well.

There is one major downside to doing this however. If the system is quite chatty (busy), your radio will keep stopping on slots with activity and will only resume scanning when it determines it isn't the talkgroup you're looking for. Fortunatly for a small system like those above, I can't imagine would be toooo big of a concern, but on the Toronto system for example, it's nearly useless.

exkalibur said:

In order to scan a Connect Plus system you'd need to scan every voice frequency in conventional TRBO mode with whatever talkgroup you wanted to hear. Keep in mind that every frequency would need to be scanned twice (two time slots per frequency). Motorola for some archaic reason only allows you to scan 15 channels, so you'd be limited to a system with 7 voice channels (or 8, assuming one of the timeslots is always transmitting a control channel).

The Windsor site for example, has 12 channels - or 24 timeslots. You could not scan using this method without missing some comms.

However in the same area, if you're in range, you could easily scan the Amherstburg, Harrow, Essex, Tecumseh or Belle River sites quite easily using this method. Given that each of the FD's using this TRBO system are right near one of these smaller sites, it should probably work quite well.

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I'm close enough that I should be able to pick up the Amherstburg site. Would I hear Lakeshores/Essex/Tecumseh Comms on that site?

Also, any idea what the colour code for the Amherstburg site is? It doesn't seem to be listed.

Bosco836, let me know how you make out. I live in Harrow and thought of adding a disc tap to my scanner and dsd decoding them

adymoe said:

Bosco836, let me know how you make out. I live in Harrow and thought of adding a disc tap to my scanner and dsd decoding them

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For sure. I don't have any experience with DSD myself; don't even have a scanner to be honest...although from what I gather - it seems to be a heck of a lot easier to do with DSD vs an XPR....but I'll be sure to let you know if I'm able to make it work regardless.

Hopefully someone who's actually got some experience with the XPRs and passive monitoring (either with this system or another system) will be able to give me a few pointers (either here or via PM) of exactly where I should be starting with this.

It does work, been there done that. As exkalibur said the only drawback is you need to be listening to a site with 8 or less frequencies (since you are monitoring each frequency x 2 timeslots). Basically you make a scan list of the talkgroups you want to monitor (all the fire groups you are interested in) and assign that to all the site frequencies and set those channels to autoscan. For the most part it works quite well.

Thread deleted. Query answered already.

Forts said:

It does work, been there done that. As exkalibur said the only drawback is you need to be listening to a site with 8 or less frequencies (since you are monitoring each frequency x 2 timeslots). Basically you make a scan list of the talkgroups you want to monitor (all the fire groups you are interested in) and assign that to all the site frequencies and set those channels to autoscan. For the most part it works quite well.

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I've got this working in part on 2 x 3 frequency (6 LCN) systems in Edmonton.
However, my issue is that my XPR 6550 is not receiving all transmissions.

When a call is assigned to the other slot of the Control Channel, I don't receive it. If it is on any of the other frequencies, I do receive it.

Are you guys able to hear entire conversations, or do you have the CC issue as well? It is happening on the 3 local systems I have programmed in.

Also, is there a wildcard that can be assigned to the frequencies in a scan list so that the radio picks up traffic from any Talk Group on the system?

rabrol said:

I've got this working in part on 2 x 3 frequency (6 LCN) systems in Edmonton.
However, my issue is that my XPR 6550 is not receiving all transmissions.

When a call is assigned to the other slot of the Control Channel, I don't receive it. If it is on any of the other frequencies, I do receive it.

Are you guys able to hear entire conversations, or do you have the CC issue as well? It is happening on the 3 local systems I have programmed in.

Also, is there a wildcard that can be assigned to the frequencies in a scan list so that the radio picks up traffic from any Talk Group on the system?

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Passively monitoring a Con+ with a DMR radio won't be perfect, but it's very doable.

If you're monitoring a large system you can use a multi radio approach (your XPR, cheap DMR radios like the MD-380,etc) Plus DSD.

There's also Hytera which allows you to program each voice frequency as a "Pseudo Trunk" channel instead of having to program each frequency twice. You will still program the voice slot for the control freq but all other voice freq's just program as Pseudo Trunk. It saves time and gives you a better scan speed. So with a 16 CH/zone Hytera you could fit up to a 31 talk path Con+ system in.

You're also not limited to 16 groups in your receive list (XPR 6550) or 32 (CS-700/MD-380).

Sorry, no wildcard selection.

Some of the CCRs (Cheap China Radios) have a wildcard option but I've heard mixed reviews on how well it actually works. None of the major DMR vendors offer this (and I'm sure they can't see why there would be a need for this in a commercial/industrial/public safety setting).

Forts said:

Some of the CCRs (Cheap China Radios) have a wildcard option but I've heard mixed reviews on how well it actually works. None of the major DMR vendors offer this (and I'm sure they can't see why there would be a need for this in a commercial/industrial/public safety setting).

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The CS750 does have a monitor mode, but last I heard you had to be parked on a frequency. It won't work if you're scanning.

If they ever develop the radio further it would be nice to see a firmware upgrade that allows use of the monitor function while scanning.

Still playing with the XPR trying to get this to work. Just wondering if anyone can

a) Confirm the colour code information in the database is correct for Sites 1, 2, 33, 34 and 35

b) Identify the correct colour code for sites 30, 31, and 32.

I would do this myself; however, don't have a scanner/discriminator tap to check for myself.

Appreciate any and all assistance!

Cheers,

Can I do this with my xpr4500?

Also not every repeater will key up when a department talks too. If you are in Leamington and Tecumseh fire is talking you wont hear them off the leamington site. They only connect to whatever tower they are close to. You might hear them one one site and then drop out as they connect to another. Sadly when they transmit it dont key up all the repeaters in the area. So thats another issue.. Depending on your location and signal plus what department you want to monitor.

Since these sites are part of the 158 connect plus system they are also used for whoever els is on the 158 system. Iv had some luck hearing them on the 5550 and 6550 but just too many frequencies now to follow them. Did this back when these towers didnt have as many frequencies assigned to them and left out the control channels