Montgomery County Encrypted

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rhedges

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Hi There,

I live in Silver Spring and I'm thinking about getting a Uniden Home Patrol II. Are there still plenty of un-encrypted services to listen to in the area? The main service I wish to listen to is Montgomery Co Police and Fire Dispatch. Any Military or other Gov services are a bonus.

I've used a SDR Dongle to tune the Montgomery county system using Unitracker. The best I can tell there are only a few services that are using encryption.

Any advice on this is appreciated before I plunk down the cash for the scanner.
 

riveter

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If you look at the DB entries, you'll note an E in the mode column for each talkpath that's encrypted. All others will show D, T, or A (typically) and will be monitorable.
 

marksmith

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I use an HP-2 and I can monitor Montgomery County mobile from some parts of Anne Arundel County, or any time I am in Howard or Frederick Counties, as I don't often get to Mongomery.

Like the man said... it never shuts up. You will want to pare down specifically to what you want to listen to.

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652
 

rhedges

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FYI I ended up getting a Uniden BCD996P2 instead of a Home Patrol II. So far I've just set up Montgomery Co. using FreeScan.

You guys were right, that system is busy and un-encrypted for the most part.

Now I'm working on getting DC, Howard Co, and PG Co set up.
 

redburgundy

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In my experience, the Montgomery County encrypted channels are not even detected by my GRE, RS and Whistler scanners. For example, I can manually set the scanner on FD TG 7L and I don't hear anything when there is a consultation underway. When it scans, it doesn't stop on 7L even though there is (apparently) a consult there. In contrast, there are other digital trunked radio systems where you can hear encrypted gibberish that sounds like analog scrambling, particularly on Federal Government digital trunked systems. So there must be different encryption technologies being used.
 

riveter

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In my experience, the Montgomery County encrypted channels are not even detected by my GRE, RS and Whistler scanners. For example, I can manually set the scanner on FD TG 7L and I don't hear anything when there is a consultation underway. When it scans, it doesn't stop on 7L even though there is (apparently) a consult there. In contrast, there are other digital trunked radio systems where you can hear encrypted gibberish that sounds like analog scrambling, particularly on Federal Government digital trunked systems. So there must be different encryption technologies being used.

Not to a great extent. Depending on system attributes, encryption is typically DES or AES, both being applied over the standard P25 waveform in the same way unencrypted voice data is transmitted. [In technical terms, the voice data is encapsulated into P25 packets the same way regardless of whether it has been encrypted or not prior to encapsulation]

The big difference is that different system types will have slightly different sounding audio artifacts when a non-filled portable or scanner decodes the encrypted P25 voice as non-encrypted. TDMA (Phase II) encryption noise sounds noticeably different from Phase I FDMA when decoded from the P25 stream, and I've heard slight signal sound differences between encrypted voice on a P25 FDMA system and an old SmartZone system using P25 voice.

If your scanner is failing to stop at all on that talkgroup, that's likely a function of the scanner. Regardless of system type, if I set any talkgroup on my scanner as a regular P25 talkgroup and let it try to decode, it'll stop-scan and let all the garble through. Some scanners (GRE has this option, not sure about others) allow you to pick whether you want encrypted traffic to be silent, busy-toned, or passed as noise on a radio-wide basis. My portable does the silent-treatment by itself if it loses its keyfill, and in those cases typically looks like the talkgroup is not in use (like you described).

P25 encryption does not change the characteristics of the voice transmission itself - the voice is still encapsulated and transmitted as regular P25 voice (having already been encrypted by the portable), with the sole addition of encryption type and algorithm ID info to the P25 voice-integrated-data stream.



Now, if you want to go back in time to talk about DVP or Securenet, then you start to get into very different ways of doing it.. but then you're not using P25 at all anymore, and that's not why we're in this thread ;)
 
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rhedges

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I'm not sure if my scanner has a feature to ignore encrypted transmission or not. I'll have to dig around. I definitely can hear the garble when it stops on an encrypted TX.

Although while I was programming it, I noticed FreeScan has an option to not download anything tagged as encrypted. I'm using that setting, so the only things I'm hearing now that are encrypted are mostly coming out of DC and are tagged as "sometimes encrypted".

Thanks for the technical discussion guys. I'm a long time Ham and just getting back into to scanning. I used to listen to scanners back in the day when P25 was just coming to my are in Columbus Ohio (late 90's early 2000's). I worked in TV News and maintained our scanners and radio system at the Assignment Desk.
 

marksmith

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I'm not sure if my scanner has a feature to ignore encrypted transmission or not. I'll have to dig around. I definitely can hear the garble when it stops on an encrypted TX.

Although while I was programming it, I noticed FreeScan has an option to not download anything tagged as encrypted. I'm using that setting, so the only things I'm hearing now that are encrypted are mostly coming out of DC and are tagged as "sometimes encrypted".

Thanks for the technical discussion guys. I'm a long time Ham and just getting back into to scanning. I used to listen to scanners back in the day when P25 was just coming to my are in Columbus Ohio (late 90's early 2000's). I worked in TV News and maintained our scanners and radio system at the Assignment Desk.
Uniden scanners typically don't do audio on P25 phase 1 encrypted talkgroups. They blast right away on phase 2 encrypted groups though.

From Silver Spring you will have a hard time receiving PG County. Howard you should get. Not sure about DC.

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
 

jkahn

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adding DC & Other local systems

rhedges:

The only thing you will hear on DC are some fire channels and one PD channel (Citywide1). Look at the RR listing and do not waste time programming any talk-groups with an "E" (this goes for any system you plan to monitor.) You might get WASA and some city services, too.

Since upgrading and encrypting their system, DC is using lower power and you will probably not be able to monitor more than a very few miles from the border, unless you are using an external antenna.

PG, while not as encrypted, is also low power and they have "tuned" their antennas to direct the signals inside the county, so as soon as you are more than a mile or two from their border, you will lose the signal.

I can monitor Howard and some Ann Arundle traffic from home in Silver Spring.

While my HPII shows activity on MD FiRST system, I don't get any voice or TG hits at home .

FYI: You said you are programming with Freescan, which is fine, but the Uniden program "Sentinel" for the BC996P2 will download directly from RR if you have a RR subscription, which makesthings soooo much simpler.

Welcome back to the hobby.

JK
 
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redburgundy

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PG, while not as encrypted, is also low power and they have "tuned" their antennas to direct the signals inside the county, so as soon as you are more than a mile or two from their border, you will lose the signal.

I think that is the case with DC and several other local jurisdictions.
 

maus92

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rhedges:




FYI: You said you are programming with Freescan, which is fine, but the Uniden program "Sentinel" for the BC996P2 will download directly from RR if you have a RR subscription, which makesthings soooo much simpler.

Welcome back to the hobby.

JK

Are you sure about Sentinel programming the BCD996P2? That would be great, but I think it only works with HP (Home Patrol) model scanners.
 

ka3jjz

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Sentinel only works with the HP scanners - the P2 scanners can be programmed with FreeScan (along with 2 other packages...)...Mike
 
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