NYPD Transit Bureau frequency changes?

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4-crime

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Hey all,

I was just listening to the NYPD Transit Bureau Bronx/Manhattan frequency 160.5000 and I heard the dispatcher saying something about all units changing channels to some other channel for testing. I couldn't exactly hear what she was saying as she was talking very very low. She did say something about Transit Mix channel and something else that was inaudible.

Anyone have any info on any changes that are happening?

Thanks for any input!
 

4-crime

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Ok, update to my previous post. I just heard the dispatcher make the same announcement in a clear manner this time. The dispatcher said the VHF frequency is closed for a "pilot project" being conducted on the "Transit Bronx UHF" channel for a period of 30 days effective January 6th, 2016 at 0700hrs and that all units should now be operating on the Transit Bronx UHF channel, which is 482.8625 DPL 047.

I am now monitoring the UHF frequency and hearing transit districts 3, 11 and 12 active.

Any info anyone may have on this would be appreciated.
 

riveter

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Well, at a guess, it certainly sounds like they're testing a pilot project as a possible precursor to moving Transit operations to UHF with the rest of city public safety...
 

4-crime

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Just by monitoring the channel for a little bit of time since last night, the UHF channel does sound a bit clearer and crisper than the VHF channel does.
 

blaze

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There's been testing (but not with live units) going on for the last month on the Bronx channel. There's a strong desire to get off the VHF system, but it's a VERY complex and fragile RF environment. Other channels will follow only if Bx (probably the simplest of the transit systems) is successful.

The VHF system is a mess, but it's at least a known entity, so this has moved VERY slowly.
 

4-crime

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There's been testing (but not with live units) going on for the last month on the Bronx channel. There's a strong desire to get off the VHF system, but it's a VERY complex and fragile RF environment. Other channels will follow only if Bx (probably the simplest of the transit systems) is successful.

The VHF system is a mess, but it's at least a known entity, so this has moved VERY slowly.

Moved very slowly is right. They have been working on this transition for about 10 years now. It was about 10 years or so ago that they dedicated one Patrol Borough frequency for each borough (with the exception of Si) and dedicated it to transit operations for each of the boroughs. But it's been pretty quiet over the years up until now.
 

FDNY216

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BROOKLYN Radio division 4 doing tests at Green Poing and Nassau Ave on the IND G line

Looks like they are moving to the next borough to commence the UHF move
 

FDNY216

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Brooklyn Radio Div 4 testing on the G line

Looks like they are moving ahead to Brooklyn

Districts 30-32-34
 

msradell

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Speaking of moving slow, how many years has it been that FDNY moved to uhf but are still using vhf?
Hopefully it will be a lot more years, like forever before the change actually happens! There have been so many problems with UHF usage for the fire service that departments all over the nation are dropping it like a hot potato in many cases.
 

tbendick

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Speaking of moving slow, how many years has it been that FDNY moved to uhf but are still using vhf?

We are not using vhf. It's just there for legacy radios but 100% of front line units are uhf and probably 90% or better on all other radios. No plans to turn off vhf at this time.
 

62Truck

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Hopefully it will be a lot more years, like forever before the change actually happens! There have been so many problems with UHF usage for the fire service that departments all over the nation are dropping it like a hot potato in many cases.
What are you taking about??

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk
 

riveter

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What are you taking about??

Sent from my SM-G928V using Tapatalk

That confused me as well. Hard for a frequency band by itself to be an issue.. Probably more a reference to an incident in his area where system coverage design was poorly done for a system that happened to be UHF.
 

ff026

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Hopefully it will be a lot more years, like forever before the change actually happens! There have been so many problems with UHF usage for the fire service that departments all over the nation are dropping it like a hot potato in many cases.

My brain hurt reading this!!!!
 

902

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Hopefully it will be a lot more years, like forever before the change actually happens! There have been so many problems with UHF usage for the fire service that departments all over the nation are dropping it like a hot potato in many cases.

Please cite some instances of problems from UHF usage, preferably from NIOSH or NIST.

It's a frequency band. Nothing more. Each one of the public safety bands has unique characteristics that make it better for certain environments. The wave propagation characteristics of UHF tend to do better in urban areas, and that's been documented through a number of empirical studies.

Whenever there is a deployment of new technology, the sea monster stories follow. Twenty years ago, I was reading (and writing) about 800 MHz trunked radio systems being "bad juju" for the fire service. And it was. It's impossible to cover everything with one site (even on VHF). Lessons were learned and wide area coverage solutions were implemented. Sixteen years ago, I was reading (and writing) about P25 implementation being bad juju the fire service. And it was. The fireground is a noisy environment, and is nothing like a sterile, quiet testing lab. While less mentioned, cops had a problem, too, as wind noise would "take out" their speech. A number of industry and stakeholder players got together and investigated the problem, then implemented solutions (like a different vocoder that's better suited for noisy environments, along with training for firefighters and best practices).

There will eventually be the painful implementation curve for 700 MHz LTE and 5G connectivity. It's coming, and so are the sea monster stories, and there will be fixes.

Today's fire service is HEAVILY engaged in the technology that they rely on. Members from a number of departments, paid and volunteer, sit side by side with manufacturers in standards-making committees. They're open meetings. You can go to them, too, or submit comments online. Your peers will go through them and give them serious consideration.

FDNY's VHF frequencies are ALL shared with other agencies in the region, both input and output. The UHF frequencies have exclusivity within the region due to their channel loading and by how the FCC constructed the rulemaking to carve out the spectrum used.

But VHF will work absolutely fine for other departments in certain environments, especially those with less-dense usage. And so will Low Band in some cases. It all depends on environment. There's no cookie cutter solution.
 

FDNY216

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T Band

Why would the NYPD switch to UHF one the UHF T band give back

And second they are narrow Branding all the transit police unit in the VHF Megz

This makes no sense changing base station and enhancing a system the plan to vacate to UHF that will be taken away in a few years

Any ideas?
 

riveter

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NYC isn't vacating. They just aren't. They're not making any plans to, they're basically not caring at all that the FCC is telling them to.

They're actually testing UHF for Transit as well, and have started doing test cutovers this last week, to see how coverage is with the UHF infrastructure.

NYC wants its public safety up on UHF all together where they can be unbothered and able to communicate with eachother well.
 

n2nov

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This is all part of the single radio concept for the NYC agencies that was discussed back in the late 1990's. At that point, a responder from NYC OEM had to carry three different Saber radios - VHF for FDNY, UHF for NYPD and EMS and 800 Mhz for OEM on the trunked system. Now, with everything on UHF, every single first responder agency could have a UHF radio with key frequencies and talkgroups programmed into it.
 
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