Motorola to challenge Bay County, FL radio bid

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bravo14

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Looks like Bay County Fl 800 system is getting a upgrade to Digital System.

PANAMA CITY BEACH — Motorola Solutions plans to challenge Bay County’s decision to pick a competitor to install a new digital public radio system for use by emergency responders countywide.

The County Commission chose to enter into negotiations with Williams Communications to install the new system, even though Williams put in a price estimate for the new system that is $2.8 million higher than Motorola’s cost estimate. Williams proposed charging the county $20.3 million for the new system compared to Motorola’s $17.5 million estimate. The third company that put in a proposal, EF Johnson, didn’t give a price estimate and as such was disqualified from consideration.

Motorola to challenge Bay County radio bid - News - Panama City News Herald - Panama City, FL
 

N4GIX

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I'm curious what equipment Williams Communications proposes to install. It sounds fishy that the highest bidder was awarded the contract.
 

kayn1n32008

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I'm curious what equipment Williams Communications proposes to install. It sounds fishy that the highest bidder was awarded the contract.


Why so? If the highest bid is the bid that offered the coverage they wanted, it makes sense to me. This is the reasoning stated for accepting the Williams bid over the Motorola bid. The cost difference looks to be a whole site...

Nice to see a place that recognizes the total cost is less important that the quality of the delivered product.

The lowest bid is not really the 'best' bid if it does not meet the design requirements.


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N4GIX

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Without having access to the specifics of either bid, I have no way to make any kind of reliable assessment. While what you assert is absolutely true, I cannot imagine that Motorola's bid did not meet at least the minimum requirements of the system.

Anytime politics is involved however, I tend to look for who has greasy hands... :wink:
 

bravo14

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kayn1n32008

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I know the analog works good around here. There is 1 or 2 Freq's are static when a user is talking. We shall see who will win.


Huh? Are you talking about the existing Motorola type 2 simulcast system?

You understand that it is likely no longer supported right? As in head to EBay for parts when they start failing? Either that or try and buy surplus/old systems as they are decommissioned.

I'm not interested in searching for bid documents. My guess is they want a P25 system. But $M17.5-20.3 for a county of 170-ish thousand people?????? Damn...


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bravo14

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Huh? Are you talking about the existing Motorola type 2 simulcast system?

You understand that it is likely no longer supported right? As in head to EBay for parts when they start failing? Either that or try and buy surplus/old systems as they are decommissioned.

I'm not interested in searching for bid documents. My guess is they want a P25 system. But $M17.5-20.3 for a county of 170-ish thousand people?????? Damn...


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Yes the Motorola type 2 seems they want to dump it and want to go digital. I don't see any updates on FCC license for Digital as of yet. The area I use to live at for 22 years that is a small town (has about 200,000 people) all LEO is ENC.
 

MTS2000des

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Yes the Motorola type 2 seems they want to dump it and want to go digital.

And they have gotten their money out of it. We EOL'ed out 1990 Smartnet II simulcast last year. It served us well, but it became a daily battle to keep it on the air and stable. MSF5000s are antiques by today's standards. RESCs would bounce for seemingly no reason taking a site off the air.

RX VCOs in the MSFs become noisy. These are just a few of the problems.

At the end of the day, it is a legacy product with no support from the manufacturer.

As far as their choice of vendor, no comment- don't have all the facts.

But these old Smartnet systems are long in the tooth.
 

902

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Low bid isn't always the best bid in the real world...

There are a lot of legalese in most requests for bid. There are some games vendors play that omit things or don't completely deliver the items that the entity feels are important.

For example, in my former job, I put out an RFB for procuring a specific device that I was not allowed to sole source. I had 75 of them around the county, I needed a 76th one because of the software to control them, as well as a stock of repair parts. 75 of one plus 1 of another won't cut it, as I need parts, training, and control mechanisms that are completely different. It would have been impractical to accept a low bidder from another manufacturer, as the costs to spool up on the product would have far, far negated any cost saved. That's one scenario.

The second scenario is that a vendor deliberately lowballs the bid. You open it, and see it's way out of whack. You're wondering, "What's missing?" So, you send out a questionnaire with an itemized listing (which is what you should have done in the first place) to see if everything is there. On the lowball bid, it's not, or it's way stripped down. Surprised? My first misadventure in municipal procurement was a "state bid" Dodge fleet van. It came in without upper windshield tinting or a passenger seat. Literally a basic conveyance. Van - comma - quantity 1. It took me a pretty long time, extra money, and unanticipated labor to get it done right after the fact, because if you don't spec it, you don't get it. Simple as that (and the bidder usually has a team of people combing through the RFB omitting things that aren't on paper). I wasn't sad to see it get reassigned to animal control.

The third scenario is where the vendor deliberately lowballs the bid, provides some items that, to someone who knows what they're looking at, looks "improbable." Can it work as specified? Maybe, if the specs were authored by an incompetent party and have a lot of holes in them. But darn if that price tag doesn't look "fiscally responsible to the taxpayer" (despite the decade of hidden costs to make the device actually work as needed).

The fourth scenario is a bid from a vendor who you might not have had a satisfying experience with. You see the folder with the vendor on it and think in the back of your mind, "Oh no, not them for another 15 years!"

The best way of dealing with things I've seen is to throw out the highest and lowest prices. The highest doesn't really want the business. The lowest will be much more trouble in the long run. Then weigh the returns from the middle band of respondents and pick the one that's got the best value for the taxpayers and most appropriate utility for the served agencies.

And, then, there are performance-based bids. "Make me a system that has a DAQ of 4.0 in 97% of the county, 97% of the time" (not saying that's what Bay County used). Vendor A says they can name that tune in 10 sites. Vendor B says they can name it in 1. And, you're like, "yeah, sure you can," and go with the one that can do it in 10, because you don't necessarily want the gamble your career on it. Face it, once it's built, what's the possibility of saying, "Get a forklift and get your crap out of here!" That would end most peoples' careers... not because you said it, but because you didn't pick correctly from the beginning. Those things end up being like building the pyramids in endless improvements and optimization.

Who knows what happened?
 
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msradell

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I'm curious what equipment Williams Communications proposes to install. It sounds fishy that the highest bidder was awarded the contract.
It's not that unusual not to take the lowest bidder and in this case with only one other qualified bidder you would end up taking the highest. Many times in private industry and sometimes in governmental agencies you aren't required to take the lowest bidder, you are required to take the BEST bidder.
 

N4GIX

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Lots of good commentary, but still the question remains about what equipment Williams Communications is proposing to use. It's not as though there are all that many possibilities!
 

62Scout

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Another thing that I didn't see mentioned - after sales support. This was one of the BIG issues my company had with Motorola, especially with procurement of new radios. At one point I was looking at lead times of over 3 MONTHS between the time I placed the order for a new radio, and the time it got to me. Sure, our procurement process played into that a little bit, but the vast majority of the problem was with Motorola.

So while the initial acquisition cost of the Motorola stuff may be millions less, the after support costs may FAR outweigh the early savings, and these things aren't reflected in these bids.
 

radiomanNJ1

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It's nice that Harris wanted only sole source for system where they did an upgrade but jumped up and down like babies when Motorola wanted to do that.

Harris tried to bid on other systems but in many cases did not meet the specs and still cried like a baby about it.

I tend to doubt the /\/\ did not meet the specifications of the system. It would be rather unusual.
 

KevinC

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Let's just hope that in the end the county gets the system they really need.

Not overkill nor under-engineered.
 

mikewazowski

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Gentlemen, let's try and keep the discussion focused on Bay County.

Cellular and public safety discussions should be in their own thread.

Thanks.
 
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