GMRS: 16 channels enough?

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

I have searched around on the web and on the forum but I am still confused. Are 16 channels enough on a radio to use all of the licensed simplex and repeater frequencies of GMRS when the radio supports talk around? I count 15 memory channels necessary but I want to make sure that I don't miss any for complete HT usage of the radio service.

Also, does $139 sounds like a decent price for a new Icom F4011 with warranty? I really like that radio.

ecps92 · Feb 4, 2016

01. 462.5500 Repeater
02. 462.5500 Simplex
03. 462.5750 Repeater
04. 462.5750 Simplex
05. 462.6000 Repeater
06. 462.6000 Simplex
07. 462.6250 Repeater
08. 462.6250 Simplex
09. 462.6500 Repeater
10. 462.6500 Simplex
11. 462.6750 Repeater
12. 462.6750 Simplex
13. 462.6750 National Traveler Tone
14. 462.6750 National Simplex
16. 462.7000 Repeater
17. 462.7000 Simplex
18. 462.7250 Repeater
19. 462.7250 Simplex
then add the GMRS Allowed 12.5 Khz simplex channels
So, NOPE 16 is not enought

Hans13 said:
I have searched around on the web and on the forum but I am still confused. Are 16 channels enough on a radio to use all of the licensed simplex and repeater frequencies of GMRS when the radio supports talk around? I count 15 memory channels necessary but I want to make sure that I don't miss any for complete HT usage of the radio service.

Also, does $139 sounds like a decent price for a new Icom F4011 with warranty? I really like that radio.

stmills · Feb 4, 2016

If your radio supports talk around then you have the 8 repeater pairs and the 7 shared gmrs/FRS channels- and 1 extra slot. The 1 issue is if you are in need of multiple different ctcss/dcs tones to work different repeaters on the same frequency. From what I recall the F4011 does not support user selectable ctcss like some of the Icoms do. I have an F40GS and an F40GT which both have user select ctcss/dcs so I have a 16 channel set up with 1-8 Gmrs repeaters, 9-15 Gmrs/FRS shared, 16 a duplicate of gmrs 6 with a different Ctcss. I then have user selectable Ctcss to use when I need a tone different than my standard.

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

ecps92 said:
01. 462.5500 Repeater
02. 462.5500 Simplex
03. 462.5750 Repeater
04. 462.5750 Simplex
05. 462.6000 Repeater
06. 462.6000 Simplex
07. 462.6250 Repeater
08. 462.6250 Simplex
09. 462.6500 Repeater
10. 462.6500 Simplex
11. 462.6750 Repeater
12. 462.6750 Simplex
13. 462.6750 National Traveler Tone
14. 462.6750 National Simplex
16. 462.7000 Repeater
17. 462.7000 Simplex
18. 462.7250 Repeater
19. 462.7250 Simplex
then add the GMRS Allowed 12.5 Khz simplex channels
So, NOPE 16 is not enought

Please check me as I'm probably messing this up.
- 1 through 12 and 16 through 19 are taken care of by talk around since we only talk on the input when doing simplex, right? Or, do we talk on the output with simplex too? If the former is correct, then that is only 8 channels needed with talk around. There could be a problem with tone for a radio that's not field programmable, of course. (+8 channels)
- National Simplex without tone. (+1 channel) *I didn't figure without tone before.
- National Traveler Tone would take a channel (+1 channel)
- There are 7 remaining somplex channels. (+7 channels)
- 8+1+1+7=17 channels*

I forgot about National Traveler Tone and forgot about the tones set for the repeaters still possibly being set during talk around. I assumed that we do not simplex on the repeater outputs but that's probably wrong too.

I was trying to do things the more correct way by figuring on a good commercial radio. I like Icom and don't particularly care for Vertex. I guess I'm going to have to look towards some field-programmable whatever that isn't Chinese. No wonder type acceptance is widely ignored for GMRS and Murs; the choices for inexpensive but durable radios that completely cover the services are slim, IMHO.

Thanks for the very good information.

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

You are figuring it the way I originally did, stmills. That makes sense to me. I'll check out some of those radio models you suggest. I need one somewhat water/dust resistant and somewhat durable due to my lifestyle... I tend to be outside a lot. Thanks.

ecps92 · Feb 4, 2016

Simplex on the inputs would not be legal.

Repeater use for a Port/Mob/Base = 462.5500 RX and 467.5500 TX
Simplex for the above is 462.5500 RX/TX

Now what get's people confused is your Repeater is programmed as
462.5500 TX and it listens to 467.5500 RX

So yes, Simplex is talking on the Output of the Repeater

Hans13 said:
Please check me as I'm probably messing this up.
- 1 through 12 and 16 through 19 are taken care of by talk around since we only talk on the input when doing simplex, right? Or, do we talk on the output with simplex too? If the former is correct, then that is only 8 channels needed with talk around. There could be a problem with tone for a radio that's not field programmable, of course. (+8 channels)
- National Simplex without tone. (+1 channel) *I didn't figure without tone before.
- National Traveler Tone would take a channel (+1 channel)
- There are 7 remaining somplex channels. (+7 channels)
- 8+1+1+7=17 channels*

I forgot about National Traveler Tone and forgot about the tones set for the repeaters still possibly being set during talk around. I assumed that we do not simplex on the repeater outputs but that's probably wrong too.

I was trying to do things the more correct way by figuring on a good commercial radio. I like Icom and don't particularly care for Vertex. I guess I'm going to have to look towards some field-programmable whatever that isn't Chinese. No wonder type acceptance is widely ignored for GMRS and Murs; the choices for inexpensive but durable radios that completely cover the services are slim, IMHO.

Thanks for the very good information.

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

ecps92 said:
Simplex on the inputs would not be legal.

At one time, long long time ago, I knew that. At least knew that it was one or the other; one of those being a no no. I got input and output confused.

Thanks again.

Project25_MASTR · Feb 4, 2016

It's enough. The F21GM was able to do all GMRS channels on 15 memories. Basically, the first 8 were repeater with the option to have talk around (talk around button works well). Then the next 7 were interstitial. The final memory (16) was scan.

$139 for a F4011 seems high to me. I bought a F4021T for that same price 3 years ago. The F4021 also support FPP through dealer set mode.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

N4KVE · Feb 4, 2016

Remember, you can only talk on a GMRS repeater that the owner has given you permission to use. It's not an open repeater to use like a ham repeater. The repeater equipment is still privately owned.

Aero125 · Feb 4, 2016

MOONBOOTS said:
Remember, you can only talk on a GMRS repeater that the owner has given you permission to use. It's not an open repeater to use like a ham repeater. The repeater equipment is still privately owned.

Not all ham repeaters are open, many are closed or private. It us up to the owner(s) of a repeater whether their machine is open or private/closed.

SteveC0625 · Feb 4, 2016

Hans13 said:
I have searched around on the web and on the forum but I am still confused. Are 16 channels enough on a radio to use all of the licensed simplex and repeater frequencies of GMRS when the radio supports talk around? I count 15 memory channels necessary but I want to make sure that I don't miss any for complete HT usage of the radio service.

Also, does $139 sounds like a decent price for a new Icom F4011 with warranty? I really like that radio.

A 16 channel radio will only work if:

A. It is capable of talk-around on the repeater pairs.

AND

B. It is capable of operator selectable TPL and DPL on the Tx side of all the frequencies.

Without these capabilities, you will sooner or later be unable to operate on some system some where.

A larger capacity radio can help, but if you travel much, you'll still run out frequency/pl combinations at some point.

KK4JUG · Feb 4, 2016

While you're pricing the radio, remember to check shipping charges. As often as not, a really low price becomes meaningless when the shipping and "handling" charges are high.

N4KVE · Feb 4, 2016

Aero125 said:
Not all ham repeaters are open, many are closed or private. It us up to the owner(s) of a repeater whether their machine is open or private/closed.

While this may be true, my point was that GMRS repeaters shouldn't be used w/o first getting permission from the owner. OTOH, we would assume ham repeaters are considered open unless we try to make a call, & RAS is required to bring it up. EG, if I was on a trip, & traveling through an area listed in the repeater book, if I couldn't bring up a repeater, I would then assume it was "private" or gone.

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

Yeah, I'm aware of repeater use, talk around, shipping charges, etc but I appreciate all of the input. I've been around wireless all of my life and my father used to work with klystrons. I might be showing a little early senility but some things still stick in my noddin.

I'm having a little trouble sourcing a new supply of those models first mentioned. I haven't yet searched the other models mentioned. If anyone has an online source, I'd appreciate a link. I want to avoid having to rely on others to program the units. If the radio comes pre-programmed with everything (and I just change tones), I'm fine with that. I can program radios if I can legitimately get the software free or cheaply (including CHIRP-able units).

I called up a local radio supplier today. They have been established for a very long time and are well respected. Unfortunately, they recommended bubble pack radios right off the bat when I was talking commercial radios. They said they knew almost nothing about GMRS. *sigh*

N4GIX · Feb 4, 2016

MOONBOOTS said:
While this may be true, my point was that GMRS repeaters shouldn't be used w/o first getting permission from the owner. OTOH, we would assume ham repeaters are considered open unless we try to make a call, & RAS is required to bring it up. EG, if I was on a trip, & traveling through an area listed in the repeater book, if I couldn't bring up a repeater, I would then assume it was "private" or gone.

Gary, many GMRS repeater operators offer "Travel Tone" access to their systems. Check on myGMRS.com and one can find out whether or not the owner has "Travel Tone" access and/or if it is open or by permission only.

redneckcellphone · Feb 4, 2016

I have the 4011 and its a good radio. I recently upgraded to the 4021 because it has a screen, allows for more frequencies to be added and uses the same charger as the 4011 and use that more. Check gmrs outlet. They can program the radio for a fee or you can buy the programming cable and get the software for free.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

N4GIX · Feb 4, 2016

redneckcellphone said:
I have the 4011 and its a good radio.

That model is already discontinued. It is replaced by the Icom IC-F3031/F4031
Icom IC-F3031/F4031 Two Way Radio

redneckcellphone · Feb 4, 2016

N4GIX said:
That model is already discontinued. It is replaced by the Icom IC-F3031/F4031
Icom IC-F3031/F4031 Two Way Radio

Gmrs outlet is still selling what 4011 radios they have left.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

mmckenna · Feb 4, 2016

If you are going to be using repeater you will need to use DCS or CTCSS tones. Different repeaters will often use different tones. Unless your radio has the ability to change tones on the fly (MPL), you'll want a channel slot for each individual repeater.
If you are only going to be using simplex then a 16 channel radio would be fine. I think you'll find, however, that you will want more.

the Icom's are pretty nice. I've got a group at work using some of those. They've stood up pretty well.
I'll second GMRSoutlet as a good dealer. He knows his stuff and is quite helpful.

Depending on what your budget is, I do think you'll want more than 16 channels. Often you'll find that getting into GMRS will lead to wanting your amateur radio license. If that happens, you'll really want more than 16 channels. Either spend a bit more, or look for something used.

Hans13 · Feb 4, 2016

The replacement model might be too rich for my blood. I wanted to check out that GMRS Outlet clearance banner on their site but the destination page or script doesn't display on any of my normal devices (one is a Samsung S6 Active). I'll try to fire up a programming computer and check it out.

Flipping between vendor sites and Icom's user manual download page just to find out if tones are field programmable is ridiculous. Perhaps there is a term I don't know on these sites to indicate the feature.

GMRS: 16 channels enough?

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