Waterford, Michigan commissions study on switching to Oakland County dispatching

rivermersey · Feb 11, 2016

A financial study requested by Waterford trustees shows the township could save $631,000 in 2016 by contracting dispatch services with Oakland County Sheriff, but dispatchers and police pointed out that dispatchers do more than just handle emergency calls.

A standing-room-only crowd of supporters which included Waterford police and firefighters turned out for a Waterford trustees workshop to review dispatching services costs. Trustees stressed the study was to gain knowledge for budget work.

Waterford commissions study on switching to Oakland County dispatching

"The Oakland Press"
Oakland County, Michigan
Waterford is in Oakland County
Northwest suburbs of Detroit

Currently on the "Open Sky" system, and is unmonitorable

R8000 · Feb 25, 2016

rivermersey said:
Currently on the "Open Sky" system, and is unmonitorable

OpenSky is so secure, even their own users can't hear it.

RayAir · Feb 27, 2016

Yeah OK. The OpenSky system works fine, at least in Oakland County. How many times have you used it? Probably zero.

And besides this really doesn't have anything to do with OpenSky. It's just another consolidation being considered.

Other issues at hand, it seems Superior EMS is encroaching on Hazel Park/ Ferndale EMS operations and possibly in the future they could take them over.

Not sure what's going on there now. Hazel Park was also supposed to get their own PD dispatch TG two years ago but they're still sharing it with Ferndale.

ffexpCP · Mar 1, 2016

Open sky is not quite a bad as it's made out to be, but it's far from 'works fine'. I use it every day. Have been for years.

RayAir · Mar 3, 2016

What part of the county are you in?

We have good coverage in the SE part. I never had a problem with not getting into the system. Didn't like using the mobile so I just used my portable. It even worked in underground parking decks.

The only issue I had was interop with MSP. The only way to get ahold of them was to reboot to 8CALL90. I don't even think anyone used any of the profiles outside of OpenSky mode. ALL_DISP and the CW TGs came in handy though.

Once there was a chase that turned into a foot pursuit, then manhunt that went into Madison Heights. MHPD and MSP were involved. They couldn't talk to one another even though they were one block apart and had to relay info by phone between dispatch.

There are problems with FD patches to the MPSCS in the northern part of the county too.

In a couple years they're supposed to roll out P25 phase 2 on the MPSCS. It would be nice if Oakland County would drop OpenSky and join the MPSCS.

kd8ati · Mar 4, 2016

RayAir said:
Yeah OK. The OpenSky system works fine, at least in Oakland County. How many times have you used it? Probably zero.

And besides this really doesn't have anything to do with OpenSky. It's just another consolidation being considered.

Other issues at hand, it seems Superior EMS is encroaching on Hazel Park/ Ferndale EMS operations and possibly in the future they could take them over.

Not sure what's going on there now. Hazel Park was also supposed to get their own PD dispatch TG two years ago but they're still sharing it with Ferndale.

Being a Ferndale resident and working for a local private EMS company I surely hope that Ferndale would never consider switching to a private. If they did then they would have no reason to keep a full time FD, as medical runs are a huge majority of their call volume. I honestly cant see the local residents allowing that.

My biggest issue with Opensky was all the problems they had when they first implemented the system, how over budget it went, the fact the dispatch consoles were outdated before ever being installed, and the fact it required 850 towers to get the needed coverage. Oh yeah its working great now... any problem can be fixed if you throw enough money at it. I too hope they switch to MPSCS. Really would not be a huge undertaking. Just take out the opensky equipment at each tower site and replace it with mother M and call it the Oakland County Simulcast. I bet it would work well with half as many sites too.

Josh · Mar 4, 2016

I realize this subject has gone off topic to Waterford's consolidation, but at in any case, Opensky in Oakland County requires a ton of towers, but when you look at other counties that are on the MPSCS, usually on a simulcast system, good coverage can be obtained with fewer towers, and there is sure to be a lot of savings in that alone.

I don't know what the specs for Oakland County as opposed to, say, Macomb county (95% portable coverage, and what have you), but I don't really 'hear' any issues on my monitoring end from radios not being able to access the system. MPSCS savings would also come from the infrastructure already in place in Oakland and adjacent counties.

RayAir · Mar 4, 2016

The last radio class I had was in 2013 and one of the papers showed county coverage and tower sites.

I want to say there were about 45 repeater sites at that time, this number included the lower profile sites too.

RayAir · Mar 4, 2016

As it stands now Superior EMS only has a mutual aid agreement with Hazel Park/Ferndale area.

szron · Mar 16, 2016

While this turned into a CLEMIS OpenSky debate. I'm gonna add my two cents. I haven't used the system and it probably works "just ok" for the county but it would be great to have the county on MPSCS since everybody is on it and it works well.

When there is a high profile incident I'd rather not be dialing numbers and waiting to be answered by a dispatcher who's busy dealing with their units and then juggle the phone and my radio to rely information only to be relied again by radio. I'd rather push a button with a city I need to get a hold of and even tho the dispatcher will likely rely the info again the officers heard it already and can act accordingly. That's how we do it with MSP, DPS,Wayne State and all Western Wayne Communities (excluding Dearborn, but not for long, their channels are already in the consoles, they will switch soon).

Also does anybody even monitor 63COM and 63P911?

SCPD · Mar 16, 2016

VHF for 50 years

szron said:
.... That's how we do it with MSP, DPS,Wayne State and all Western Wayne Communities (excluding Dearborn, but not for long, their channels are already in the consoles, they will switch soon)....

Well well. You're the first I've heard that Dearborn is leaving VHF. Joining MSPSC? Will they be their own thing? Or part of Western Wayne?

RayAir · Mar 16, 2016

szron said:
While this turned into a CLEMIS OpenSky debate. I'm gonna add my two cents. I haven't used the system and it probably works "just ok" for the county but it would be great to have the county on MPSCS since everybody is on it and it works well.

When there is a high profile incident I'd rather not be dialing numbers and waiting to be answered by a dispatcher who's busy dealing with their units and then juggle the phone and my radio to rely information only to be relied again by radio. I'd rather push a button with a city I need to get a hold of and even tho the dispatcher will likely rely the info again the officers heard it already and can act accordingly. That's how we do it with MSP, DPS,Wayne State and all Western Wayne Communities (excluding Dearborn, but not for long, their channels are already in the consoles, they will switch soon).

Also does anybody even monitor 63COM and 63P911?

They told us specifically if you need to get ahold of MSP, using the patch channel 63P911 , which is in the "Home" profile on the O/S radio, is no guarantee.

They said to use "8CALL90" which requires a few button presses on the radio and it has to reboot into conventional mode.

I've never heard any voice traffic on 63P911 and most people don't even remember how to change profiles in the radio yet alone modes.

szron · Mar 17, 2016

Wyandotte said:
Well well. You're the first I've heard that Dearborn is leaving VHF. Joining MSPSC? Will they be their own thing? Or part of Western Wayne?

MPSCS. They got a federal grant. No new towers for now. They already have some 800 Portables. Their TGs are already assigned. Should be online by the end of the year.

RayAir said:
They told us specifically if you need to get ahold of MSP, using the patch channel 63P911 , which is in the "Home" profile on the O/S radio, is no guarantee.

They said to use "8CALL90" which requires a few button presses on the radio and it has to reboot into conventional mode.

I've never heard any voice traffic on 63P911 and most people don't even remember how to change profiles in the radio yet alone modes.

On MPSCS getting ahold of MSP is as easy as going on SWIDE2. I was wondering if anyone in Oakland County monitors those if I want to call them. I'm pretty sure Oakland monitors 8CALL90 but our consoles don't have it, consolettes do but that's a pain to use.

RayAir · Mar 17, 2016

Also on O/S the only guarantee that dispatch will hear you is by calling on your main dispatch channel or using "ALL_DISP".

If you're on a secondary or TAC group, dispatch may or may not hear you depending on if they're monitoring that group and the volume for it is turned up on their dispatch screen.

m297 · Mar 18, 2016

8CALL90 is not a resource on the system, it's actually an analog repeater for a lack of a better term which is turned on and off by the state when needed. This wouldn't serve a good way to contact MSP.

63P911 is a MPSCS talk group that is patched to the open sky system so the users can communicate, if you actually have that in ur Oakland co radio and an mpscs user has it you will be able to communicate.

RayAir said:
They told us specifically if you need to get ahold of MSP, using the patch channel 63P911 , which is in the "Home" profile on the O/S radio, is no guarantee.

They said to use "8CALL90" which requires a few button presses on the radio and it has to reboot into conventional mode.

I've never heard any voice traffic on 63P911 and most people don't even remember how to change profiles in the radio yet alone modes.

SCPD · Mar 18, 2016

State and Oakland

First thanks szron for the Dearborn info. I kinda been noticing last few months I'm not hearing Dearborn detectives on the 423 frequencies I used to hear them on.

Question to all. Seen a few post on how the county can contact the state. Now how do state and neighbors contact and monitor Oakland County?

m297 · Mar 18, 2016

Reference your Oakland co question, short answer is you don't unless Oakland co is monitoring 63P911, just the same for downriver radio system, unless downriver has 82C911 volume up on there consoles, you might want to grab a cell phone.

Wyandotte said:
First thanks szron for the Dearborn info. I kinda been noticing last few months I'm not hearing Dearborn detectives on the 423 frequencies I used to hear them on.

Question to all. Seen a few post on how the county can contact the state. Now how do state and neighbors contact and monitor Oakland County?

szron · Mar 18, 2016

Wyandotte said:
First thanks szron for the Dearborn info. I kinda been noticing last few months I'm not hearing Dearborn detectives on the 423 frequencies I used to hear them on.

Question to all. Seen a few post on how the county can contact the state. Now how do state and neighbors contact and monitor Oakland County?

MSP Troopers carry an Oakland prep on them. Others don't contact them via radio, all we have is phones.

m297 I'm actually curious if Downriver monitors 82C911, I'll check that soon.

krokus · Mar 18, 2016

szron said:
...does anybody even monitor 63COM and 63P911?

I never tried those, but have tried 63MPSCS1, with no success.

Sent via Tapatalk

SCPD · Mar 22, 2016

Thanks for the replies. Somehow agencies other than Downriver must be monitoring Downriver. More than a few times since they re-banded and went to this new Cassadian system, there has been a major event and MSP and the Border Patrol has been Johnny On The Spot right away.

Waterford, Michigan commissions study on switching to Oakland County dispatching

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