Cal Fire Low Band VHF

Does anyone know if Cal Fire is still using their low band VHF radio system? I took a look at the database today and noticed it is no longer listed. I know we have some Radio Reference members who work for Cal Fire and would know what the current situation is and would like to hear. I'm wondering if I should keep the five frequencies in my scanner programs. I took a look at the FCC licenses for the five frequencies while preparing a small database submission for the agency. Here is what the FCC records show

31.140 Remote Bases: Big Maria Mtn. & Black Rock, eastern Riverside County area
31.180 Repeaters & Remote Bases: Cahto Peak, Cold Springs Mtn. (Mendocino County); Box Springs Mtn., Elsinore Peak & Santa Rosa Mtn. (Riverside Co.) . Fixed Bases: Indio (Riverside Co.) Portable Repeater: statewide
31.260 Fixed Base Temporary: Statewide
31.980 Fixed Base: Willits (Mendocino Co.) Fixed Base Temporary: Statewide
33.800 Repeater & Remote Base: Pine Hill (El Dorado Co.)

All five frequencies are licensed for mobile operations statewide.

Looking at the first one, I can't help but wonder if that is their method of "long distance" cross-band linking back to a control station near the West end of the county.

(or it is the backup to a microwave link back to "civilization")

I have a CDF Radio manual from 1973 give or take and i dont recall those freqs being in there, however its been some time since i looked at it if i can even find it, but i recall it had Local/Region/State Nets and Blue Air,Green Air freqs all Highband RE: Auburn CDF KXE36 was Disp for where i lived in Yuba Co during that time near Challenge Ranger Station near La Porte for the Plumas NF and Local Net 151.250, Region Net 151.325, State Net 151.355 using Tone Bursts. I was searching Lowband in those days as well and i only remember hearing Marin County Fire Disp, OES 1 & 2 Inputs in that area on 33 MHz.

The mendecino county areas i recall did not move the Cal State Parks Dist from 44 MHz to 800 MHz right away due to the terrain i believe it was some time before they moved after the rest of the state moved, i wonder if that would explain the reason why Mendecino has Repeaters listed on Low for CDF.

The Pine Hill site i never heard ever i recall for CDF in El Dorado county, i could hear all the Low Band Sheriff Repeaters along the sierra from Sierra County 39 MHz,Nevada County 39 MHz, Placer County 39 MHz, El Dorado County 45 MHz, Amador County 45 MHz,Calaveras County 45 MHz, Tuolomne County 45 MHz and was always looking for more freqs.

I have a Police Call Directory from 1977 and i looked thru it last night and it didnt shed much light on anything, it listed the few Low Band sites with Callsigns but didnt note to what their purpose was like the High Band stuff.

I did an extensive search last night looking to see if there was any pattern of Low Band to High Band migration for CDF and it didnt yield much i recall they listed 200 Mobile Units on the Low Band License while the High Band Mobile numbered in the thousands.

Here is what i could dig up from my 1977 and on up police call directories mixed with whatever else i could find and i have that manual and other directories but i dont know where they are right now.

Here is what i found but you may have the same thing.

These were listed under Conservation and werent associated with the State Parks 44 MHz system.

Except the 46 MHz freq which was the El Dorado County Fire freq from long ago.

Searching with KA3134 i only found 200 Mobiles listed on the Freqs below and nowhere else.

031.1400 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KA3134 MO STATEWIDE
KEE37 BM RIVERSIDE
KEE38 BM INDIO
KEF962 BM BLYTHE
KMF239 BM WHITEWATER
KMM522 BM BLYTHE
KVM30 BM ANZA
KVP501 BM CHUCKWALLA MTN
WNSD708 BM BM SANTA ROSA MTN
WNUU740 BM WHITEWATER

031.1800 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KA3134 MO STATEWIDE
KBU278 MR CAHTO PEAK
KBU278 BM CAHTO PEAK
KMB206 MR COLD SPRING MTN
KMB206 BM COLD SPRING MTN
KRP770 MR BOX SPRINGS MTN
KRP770 BM BOX SPRINGS MTN
KSP243 MR ELSINORE PEAK
KSP243 BM ELSINORE PEAK
KVP501 MR CHUCKWALLA MTN
KVP501 BM CHUCKWALLA MTN
WNSD708 MR SANTA ROSA MTN
WNSD708 BM SANTA ROSA MTN

031.2600 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KA3134 MO STATEWIDE
KMM511 FX CAMINO

031.4600 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KSQ332 MR HEALDSBURG

031.9800 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KA3134 MO STATEWIDE
KEE38 FX INDIO
KHJ28 FX RIVERSIDE
KOS99 FX WILLITS
KVZ21 FX OROVILLE
KVZ63 FX PERRIS

033.8000 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KA3134 MO STATEWIDE
KMA436 MR PINE HILL
KMA436 BM PINE HILL

046.4200 CALIFORNIA STATE OF
KSQ753 BM CAMINO

Hi Fred,
I was told by a CDF Firefighter
it is the battalion chief net. The Batt Chief could communicate x county and have a back up instead of cell phones.

Also I have never heard any traffic on those low band freq.

RRU chiefs used to have a separate low band radio in their vehicles and used this radio for non-incident operational notifications between chiefs. Once the dept. started adopting Nextel phones, the low band radios became obsolete. I don't know of any chiefs vehicle that has a low band radio in it.

They're still listed in the official Cal Fire radio directory; used when needed especially in mountainous areas where VHF-Hi and UHF doesn't propagate well.

bryan_herbert said:

They're still listed in the official Cal Fire radio directory; used when needed especially in mountainous areas where VHF-Hi and UHF doesn't propagate well.

Click to expand...

Thanks, Bryan, that is where I should have looked in the first place. The directory does not show the Pine Hill repeater in El Dorado Co. or the remote bases north of Blythe. Portions of the system have been recently relicensed recently and it is listed in the directory so it is curious that none of the Riverside Unit chiefs rigs have low band radios.

I wonder why there are two repeaters in the western portion of the Mendocino Unit and none in the Humboldt-Del Norte Unit as the propagation conditions in those two counties are similar to those in Mendocino Co.

Finally, why have one in El Dorado Co. where propagation conditions allow 800 MHz communications by Caltrans?

ADDITIONAL: I'm going to make a small database submission to include this low band system and to correct the listings for some tactical, air to air FM tactics and air to ground frequency licensing. People who program all the tactical frequencies in their scanners should note that the listing of 152.1825 for Tac 28 is in error. 151.1825 is the correct frequency. I have copies of several CDF frequency loads from 2015 that show the correct frequency for this newer tactical channel. I will be making the database submission in the next few days.

I found this 2011 CDF Radio plan and on page #93 it has a map of Low Band Net.
It seems to be missing some info, im going through it now but here is PDF link.
http://www.sonomachiefs.org/home/sonomafirechiefs/Operations Group/2011 Radio Call Plan.pdf

I found this on a CDF article
Chief's Net
This system of low-band repeaters was a great concept for longer range communications that the battalion and division chiefs could utilize away from the busy VHF hi-band freqs. However the state budget over the past years has put a halt to expanding and maintaining this system and the project is in limbo. It will be rare to hear any traffic on these frequencies.
This might explain the incomplete license data, system was being expanded/built until the money wasnt there.

This may be the Riverside County Net on the Low Band Net CDF map
WESTERN COUNTY DISASTER NET RIVERSIDE COUNTY
Frequency Input Tone Channel
33.9200 33.5000 167.9 WCDN MULTIPLE SITES
33.0600 ........... 167.9 WCDN COUNTYWIDE MOBILE

WPBT626 WCDN Repeater Sites
BOX SPRINGS MOUNTAIN
WHITEWATER HILL
SANTA ROSA MOUNTAIN
CHUCKAWALLA MOUNTAIN
BLACK ROCK MOUNTAIN AKA BLACK BUTTE
MARION RIDGE

Cancel

I am not aware of any BC or DV vehicles utilizing lo-band here in LNU plus no low band antennas mounted. They have two VHF-hi radios though but that helps when setting up a mobile ICP and monitoring two channels at once.

The Chief's Net has moved over to CMARS 800 mhz channels for the "back channel" comms when they are out of cell coverage. I haven't heard any traffic for years on any of the CDF or OES low-band channels except skip in the winter when the LB receivers were still hooked up.

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smokeybehr said:

The Chief's Net has moved over to CMARS 800 mhz channels for the "back channel" comms when they are out of cell coverage. I haven't heard any traffic for years on any of the CDF or OES low-band channels except skip in the winter when the LB receivers were still hooked up.

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Click to expand...

Thank you for the update !

So youre saying command/chief vehicles have an 800 mhz radio? Not in the SLU anyway.

KJ6HCB said:

So youre saying command/chief vehicles have an 800 mhz radio? Not in the SLU anyway.

Click to expand...

It depends on the Unit. I learned the other day that the LB-VHF system is still active in the Bay area and Inland Empire, but whether the channels are actually being used is a different story. One of the discussions was whether we still needed to have the "range 1" LB-VHF radio (25-35) in one of our pieces of interoperability equipment, or if we could replace it with something else. We decided that, because there were still several systems in operation in that frequency range, we should keep the unit, and see if we could make adjustments elsewhere.

I realize that this is a six-month-old thread but I monitor the Inland Empire extensively from an altitude of 6300 feet and I have never heard activity on low band 4 CALFIRE. The frequencies do not appear on any of our comm plans. I use Vertex mobiles with a Cushcraft 5/8 wave vertical. If someone was talking I'd hear it.

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Many years ago I used to see base loaded low band whips on some of the CDF command vehicles. I had an ex co-worker tell me that some of them had CB's. I suspect that wasn't the case.
I haven't seen a CDF/CalFire vehicle with a low band whip on it in a very long time. At least around here, their VHF system is well built out with good coverage.

I kind of think it is short sighted of agencies to completely abandon the simple systems like low band that would do simplex over long distances. CHP has stuck with it since it really is the only way to get the coverage they need. VHF works well for CalFire. I guess mobile satellite phones/radios are cheap enough now that they fill the need.

I sometimes wonder if I need to get myself a low band license and a few old low band radios for my own use.

Riverside County nets are still active used very little mostly for disaster nets/drills , ECC , MEOC's and I believe ESD units only ones that have radio's now. Also link from Perris ECC to Indio back up ECC.