LAPD ch 27 ASD encryption

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mikegilbert

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Noticed LAPD channel 27-ASD (Air Support Division) hit the Ø switch recently. Haven't heard any more conversations in the clear since.

Not sure what prompted the switch to encryption, but it's too bad.
 

Badboy536

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Yeah I heard the same thing..I wonder why..lapd has much more Sensitive Channels then that one..weird.
Hope this is not the Beginning of a trend.
 

Radio_Lady

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For a few years before and after LAPD went digital, that frequency was installed only in Air Units' radios and it had phone patch capabilities. Nor was it listed publicly anywhere that I saw. I accidentally found it being used as a phone patch, with the observers actually calling PR's for more information about their calls. Things like "Are you the second house from the corner?" or "Can you still see the guy in your backyard?" It didn't work real well, as citizens had trouble understanding that neither side could talk and listen at the same time. And being analog it wasn't secure at all. They might still have phone patch available in there, for which encryption could be useful. I am just guessing.
 

karldotcom

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For a few years before and after LAPD went digital, that frequency was installed only in Air Units' radios and it had phone patch capabilities. Nor was it listed publicly anywhere that I saw. I accidentally found it being used as a phone patch, with the observers actually calling PR's for more information about their calls. Things like "Are you the second house from the corner?" or "Can you still see the guy in your backyard?" It didn't work real well, as citizens had trouble understanding that neither side could talk and listen at the same time. And being analog it wasn't secure at all. They might still have phone patch available in there, for which encryption could be useful. I am just guessing.
When air units were passing calls off to each other they were giving a lot of details over the air....which was subsequently being posted.....

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Radio_Lady

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When air units were passing calls off to each other they were giving a lot of details over the air....which was subsequently being posted.....
That's just dandy. Scanner or scanner app listeners helping lubricate the already slippery slope to total encryption. It's bound to get here eventually, and I can completely understand it, but I'll miss the listening.
 

inigo88

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This is really unfortunate. ASD was one of the best LAPD channels, because pilots would brief each other on hot call info. That being said, I never heard anything remotely sensitive said over the air that wasn't already part of the call info via the dispatch channel or Air/K9. It was just a helpful indicator to see what part of the city the air units were enroute to (since Air/K9 is so spammed with multi-selects that it isn't terribly useful for it's stated purpose anymore).

I sincerely hope it was never on a Broadcastify feed (since feeds providing channels used for LE tactical/car-to-car only traffic are specifically prohibited by the TOS: Feed Provider Terms of Service - The RadioReference Wiki). If it was just posts, I wish people would have the good sense and the tact to not post the play by play of what they're hearing in real time. Use good judgement and keep in mind that your actions may be shaping the political climate to come on this issue.
 

Radio_Lady

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It was just a helpful indicator to see what part of the city the air units were enroute to (since Air/K9 is so spammed with multi-selects that it isn't terribly useful for it's stated purpose anymore).
Unfortunately, the multi-selects aren't really "spammed" at all, but have been specifically decided upon by committees and people so far up and across the Organization Chart they probably don't even know where the two Dispatch Centers are. The channels are pre-programmed into the CAD and Frequency Select functions at the Communications Division consoles. I and many others, all retired for years now, struggled with it and complained, to no avail, so there's no sense doing it again here. My two pet peeves though were that (1) too many minor things get multi-selected to too many divisions, and (2) whenever another operator is broadcasting on your frequency you cannot hear YOUR units. Period. If they need something they just have to wait, or push-comes-to-shove, use their Emergency Trigger. Off the topic for sure now.
 

Nutes

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This whole discussion leads me to my own personal experiences right here in the sticks. I am a rookie to the scanner world. I believe I already made a rookie mistake not too long ago that I won't make again.

Long story short I used to work for a small municipal government here in my area for many years. I knew allot of the police and they knew me. I worked for two different mayors during my time. Not too long I heard some radio conversation (standard plate check information) on my scanner that involved someone I knew in the community. Nothing horrible, just standard registration mix up issues. I happened to see the guy in public not long after and mentioned it casually in a conversation. This guy had connections with the Village I use to work for and whos police unit I was listening to. I had mentioned this:"Just so he was aware". Wasn't two weeks later that the local Village Police Force I heard in the clear for three months straight and had worked with for 9 years went to encryption. I don't think this was coincidence.

I can imagine many Larger forces hearing their signal on line are all slowly but surely moving to encryption. I definitely think we are ending our own hobby by doing this. Me blabbing my big mouth certainly damaged my interest in the hobby.

Bottom line....after this post......I will never repeat what I hear on the scanner again. Especially if it involves law enforcement activity.
 

f40ph

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There's no going backwards and broadcastify rules don't matter to law enforement. Probably was "a little too little-a little too late" anyway. It needs to be shared with all of the "rookie" listeners that ENC is simply going to grow and grow. It's quite affordable now and there are too many real-life examples for L.E. to point to in favor of going "ENC".
 

mikegilbert

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That's just dandy. Scanner or scanner app listeners helping lubricate the already slippery slope to total encryption. It's bound to get here eventually, and I can completely understand it, but I'll miss the listening.

Sadly, you're right. ASD has always been one of my favorites for getting the real picture of an event.

As someone else mentioned earlier, it's all about tact and knowing when to keep what you hear over the radio to yourself.
 

PaulNDaOC

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In the LA area I have noticed a few feeds on Twitter that often incorporate the word 'scanner' in their title and send out tweet after tweet , often including sensitive info.

If any of those tweeters are reading this please be aware that Investigators do not divulge certain things about a case to the public in open investigations beacuse of the difficulties key facts disclosed on the world web can have in a successful investigation and/or prosecution.

The worst tweet I saw though was from a blogger in my city that calls himself a journalist, and tweets off the scanner at times, I think he caused me to nearly faint when he tweeted the name of a 12 yr old with emotional issues who just cut his wrists after hearing it on an lasd l-tac with the header 'Breaking News'

Thank goodness he doesn't have access to the names of persons that commit suicide or just ran out of time on planet earth..

With this going on who could blame an agency to go full-E

BTW LASD has a policy of note releasing to the public amounts of cash taken in bank 211's for similar reasons.
 
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wiredwrx

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Unfortunately, the multi-selects aren't really "spammed" at all, but have been specifically decided upon by committees and people so far up and across the Organization Chart they probably don't even know where the two Dispatch Centers are. The channels are pre-programmed into the CAD and Frequency Select functions at the Communications Division consoles. I and many others, all retired for years now, struggled with it and complained, to no avail, so there's no sense doing it again here. My two pet peeves though were that (1) too many minor things get multi-selected to too many divisions, and (2) whenever another operator is broadcasting on your frequency you cannot hear YOUR units. Period. If they need something they just have to wait, or push-comes-to-shove, use their Emergency Trigger. Off the topic for sure now.
Hey Lady, sorry to go a little more off topic, but I have a question. Can LAPD dispatchers hear a unit's transmission when the dispatcher is transmitting. As an example, I know that NYPD (and now FDNY) can hear a unit's transmission while they are transmitting. To the unit in the field, it just sounds like the dispatcher is hearing the transmission on an external speaker. An example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkVsHCAqQ5I)
 

inigo88

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Unfortunately, the multi-selects aren't really "spammed" at all, but have been specifically decided upon by committees and people so far up and across the Organization Chart they probably don't even know where the two Dispatch Centers are. The channels are pre-programmed into the CAD and Frequency Select functions at the Communications Division consoles. I and many others, all retired for years now, struggled with it and complained, to no avail, so there's no sense doing it again here. My two pet peeves though were that (1) too many minor things get multi-selected to too many divisions, and (2) whenever another operator is broadcasting on your frequency you cannot hear YOUR units. Period. If they need something they just have to wait, or push-comes-to-shove, use their Emergency Trigger. Off the topic for sure now.

Hi Radio_Lady,

"Spammed" was a bit of a tongue in cheek joke on my part. I have followed your posts on RR for several years, and I actually recall you posting about the specific incident which precipitated the command staff's decision for the multi-selects. I believe it was an officer calling for backup when a nearby traffic unit could have responded, but didn't hear the call. Is that correct?

In any case, while a limited number of cases of citywide and adjacent channel multi-selects are pertinent and practiced by other departments, I have always been of the belief that LAPD takes this practice to an unreasonable extreme. Many of the call types that are multi-selected on adjacent dispatch channels (and sometimes even Air/K9) leave me scratching my head. And while it's a valuable situational awareness tool for the officers to hear this info if possible, most other departments handle this by programming priority scan lists into their radios rather than forcing it on the dispatcher side.

One thing I did NOT realize was that the other console's multi-select transmission blocks your ability to hear your own officers on the input side of the radio (unless they use their emergency button). That is completely unacceptable, and I would argue a big officer safety issue given the frequency of LAPD dispatch multi-selects.

Thank you as always for your insight!
 

WX4JCW

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In the LA area I have noticed a few feeds on Twitter that often incorporate the word 'scanner' in their title and send out tweet after tweet , often including sensitive info.

If any of those tweeters are reading this please be aware that Investigators do not divulge certain things about a case to the public in open investigations beacuse of the difficulties key facts disclosed on the world web can have in a successful investigation and/or prosecution.

The worst tweet I saw though was from a blogger in my city that calls himself a journalist, and tweets off the scanner at times, I think he caused me to nearly faint when he tweeted the name of a 12 yr old with emotional issues who just cut his wrists after hearing it on an lasd l-tac with the header 'Breaking News'

Thank goodness he doesn't have access to the names of persons that commit suicide or just ran out of time on planet earth..

With this going on who could blame an agency to go full-E

BTW LASD has a policy of note releasing to the public amounts of cash taken in bank 211's for similar reasons.

and that is precisely why encryption happens because of tools like this, what a moron
 

jtech48

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Hey Lady, sorry to go a little more off topic, but I have a question. Can LAPD dispatchers hear a unit's transmission when the dispatcher is transmitting. As an example, I know that NYPD (and now FDNY) can hear a unit's transmission while they are transmitting. To the unit in the field, it just sounds like the dispatcher is hearing the transmission on an external speaker. An example (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkVsHCAqQ5I)

Yes they can. The officers cant hear any audio other than the dispatcher when that happens, the only time an officers transmissions are re-broadcasted while the dispatcher is transmitting is usually when they're simulcasting on several frequencies (i.e. when a code 3 call is being broadcasted) This is usually at only some consoles, it has to do with the audio switching box located at each dispatcher console, this is the reason why sometimes you'll hear the caller speaking during the broadcast
 
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Radio_Lady

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Can LAPD dispatchers hear a unit's transmission when the dispatcher is transmitting.

Yes they can.
That is the best thing I've heard about Comm Div in a very long time. How on earth the ECCCS and the CD people either overlooked or affirmatively allowed that sidetone function to disappear as part of the new MCDC in 2002 and VCDC in 2003 was never explained to us. The only excuse was "Motorola says the new equipment can't allow the RTOs to receive and transmit simultaneously, but they'll work on it."

The other best thing is the new Captain's inviting all of us retired sworn and civilian CD personnel to the two centers for a reunion, lunch, and tours of the "new" centers this week. Many have never been back since the early 80s in the CDC dungeon or even before that, having been hired in the 1960s. Unfortunately one policeman they were reaching out to, who came on the department in 1946 and worked in the Parker Center mic room in the 1970s, unexpectedly passed away just over a month ago at age 98. But I'm looking forward to seeing a lot of wayback friends on one if not both days. (It's National Public Safety Telecommunicators Week)
 
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