Niagara Region Fire Departments new numbering system.

Next week, all Fire Services are supposed to, (well some for sure), switch over to a new numbering system for all apparatus. It will be a 3 digit system with each number meaning something. The first number will indicate the municipality and apparently those numbers are decided based on population size. So for example, St. Catharines would be 1, the Falls 2, Welland 3 through too Wainfleet 12. The second number will indicate the station which the vehicle comes from. The third number will indicate the type of apparatus it is, so 1-4 are for Pumpers, 5 ladder trucks, 6 tankers, 7 heavy rescue, 8 squad units. so for example, Lincoln Pump 3 would become 631, Rescue 3 will be 637. West Lincoln Pump 1 would become 1111, so I assume St. Catharines Pump 1 will become 111. The idea is to eliminate the the use of words not needed and simplifying all apparatus and eliminate duplicate sounding names especially with Dept's that share frequencies and run automatic and mutual aid with each other. From what I've been told, in the beginning the municipalities name will still be mentioned, until everyone gets used to it. This should be interesting. Below is a link to Lincoln Fires wiki page which shows the new system.

Lincoln Fire Rescue Service (Ontario - Firefighting Wiki - Wikia)

"St Catharines Control this is West Lincoln 1111"... way easier than "St. Catharines Control this is West Lincoln Pump 1".....

Seems to be the other way around for chatham-kent fire.
They are moving away from 1-11 (Chatham Pumper) 3-12 (Wallaceburg Tanker) 4-13 (Dover Rescue) and so on and on. As the first number is the station 1-19 and the 2nd two numbers is for pumper-11 tanker-12 rescue-13 ladder-14 boats-15. So dispatch 1-11 will now be dispatch pumper 1.

The first numbers are based on population size, of each municipality within the Region of Niagara. St. Catharines has the largest so they are number 1. The second number (which is set up 1-7) indicates the station number, 8 will be training and 9 prevention, and the third number indicates the apparatus type. 1-4 is for Pumps, 5 Ladder Trucks, 6 Tankers, 7 Heavy Rescues, and 8 Squads and light rescues, and 9 for Rehab, Hazmat and Utilities.

how about boats?

captainthrowback said:

The first numbers are based on population size, of each municipality within the Region of Niagara. St. Catharines has the largest so they are number 1. The second number (which is set up 1-7) indicates the station number, 8 will be training and 9 prevention, and the third number indicates the apparatus type. 1-4 is for Pumps, 5 Ladder Trucks, 6 Tankers, 7 Heavy Rescues, and 8 Squads and light rescues, and 9 for Rehab, Hazmat and Utilities.

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OK so Chiefs (high command) are ???
and what towns are assigned what #'s after St.Caths = 1... Falls = 2... the rest are??

First Number=City
St. Catharines-1
Falls-2
Welland-3
Fort Erie-4
Grimsby-5
Lincoln-6
Port Colborne-7
Thorold-8
Pelham-9
NOTL-10
West Lincoln-11
Wainfleet-12

Second Number=Station
0=HQ/Administration
1-7 (Station Numbers)

Third Number=Apparatus Type
1-4=Pump
5=Ladder
6=Tanker
7=Rescue
8=Squad
9=Rehab/Utility/Other

For the Chiefs and Deputy Chiefs lets use Lincoln as an example, Lincoln Car 1 will become 601, Car 2 602, but FPO will be 609. District Chiefs will be 610, 620, 630, 640. For Portable radios, officers and ff's will either say for example 611 Driver or Officer, or may use their badge numbers "6-302"

Hope this helps.

Any know any station numbers? NF more specifically?

captainthrowback said:

First Number=City
St. Catharines-1
Falls-2
Welland-3
Fort Erie-4
Grimsby-5
Lincoln-6
Port Colborne-7
Thorold-8
Pelham-9
NOTL-10
West Lincoln-11
Wainfleet-12

Second Number=Station
0=HQ/Administration
1-7 (Station Numbers)

Third Number=Apparatus Type
1-4=Pump
5=Ladder
6=Tanker
7=Rescue
8=Squad
9=Rehab/Utility/Other

For the Chiefs and Deputy Chiefs lets use Lincoln as an example, Lincoln Car 1 will become 601, Car 2 602, but FPO will be 609. District Chiefs will be 610, 620, 630, 640. For Portable radios, officers and ff's will either say for example 611 Driver or Officer, or may use their badge numbers "6-302"

Hope this helps.

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And the purpose of management implementing this was to 'simplify' things correct?

was referring to station area's sorry not sure if like, station 1 area. Chippewa, or Station 2 lundys lane area, that kinda thing, mom in law looking for an spcific station area and would like to know the station number so she can keep an eye on it,

It's somewhat confusing but I believe looks similar to yorks region FD's where that have the station and apparatus number combined.

Sent from my XT1563 using Tapatalk

Stations
Station 1 - 5815 Morrison Street. Full Time

Station 2 - 7036 McLeod Road. Full Time

Station 3 - 3401 Dorchester Road. Full Time

Station 4 - 8696 Banting Avenue. volunteer

Station 5 - 11208 Sodom Road. Volunteer

Station 6 - 8037 Schisler Road. Volunteer

New Station 7 to be built end of Lundys Lane. Most probably Full time?

exkalibur said:

"St Catharines Control this is West Lincoln 1111"... way easier than "St. Catharines Control this is West Lincoln Pump 1".....

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Wouldn't even need to say West Lincoln, just "St Catharines Control, 1111" (insert pizza pizza joke here)

Tech4064 said:

And the purpose of management implementing this was to 'simplify' things correct?

Click to expand...

I would say so yes.

Once everyone gets used to the new system, crews on the fire ground (especially during a mutual aid call) hear a specific apparatus responding (i.e. 111) and they know exactly what type of truck is on the way (a pumper from St Catharines). In addition to taking up waaay less airtime, it also helps to streamline operations.

alex288288 said:

was referring to station area's sorry not sure if like, station 1 area. Chippewa, or Station 2 lundys lane area, that kinda thing, mom in law looking for an spcific station area and would like to know the station number so she can keep an eye on it,

Click to expand...

By rights, it should go as so.

Station 1 will house (Pump) 211, (Ladder) 215, (Rescue) 217
Station 2 (Ladder) 225
Station 3 (Pump) 231
Station 4 (Pump) 241, (Pump) 242, (Rescue) 247 not sure what the boats are, most likely 2-1 and 2-2
Station 5 (Pump) 251, (Tanker) 256, (Rescue) 257
Station 6 (Pump) 261, (Tanker) 266, (Rescue) 267

At this time, they seems to be going by just numbers only (the new ones without stating apparatus type), but still referring to the Volunteer Halls as Falls Station 4, 5 and 6 and not 2-4, 2-5, and 2-6 like the Depts. in the West end of the Region are doing. At this time, Lincoln, West Lincoln, Grimsby and Niagara Falls are the only Depts. to be on this new system, and not sure when the others will follow suite.

New System

captainthrowback said:

By rights, it should go as so.

Station 1 will house (Pump) 211, (Ladder) 215, (Rescue) 217
Station 2 (Ladder) 225
Station 3 (Pump) 231
Station 4 (Pump) 241, (Pump) 242, (Rescue) 247 not sure what the boats are, most likely 2-1 and 2-2
Station 5 (Pump) 251, (Tanker) 256, (Rescue) 257
Station 6 (Pump) 261, (Tanker) 266, (Rescue) 267

At this time, they seems to be going by just numbers only (the new ones without stating apparatus type), but still referring to the Volunteer Halls as Falls Station 4, 5 and 6 and not 2-4, 2-5, and 2-6 like the Depts. in the West end of the Region are doing. At this time, Lincoln, West Lincoln, Grimsby and Niagara Falls are the only Depts. to be on this new system, and not sure when the others will follow suite.

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I have been listening to the system for several days and have not been able to pick up anything as of yet. No talk-groups or audio
Steve

New Numbering System Niagara

Well if you have been monitoring Niagara Falls, you will have noticed by now they have scrapped the new numbering system. The West Niagara area Dept's still currently using it, but sounds like it isn't gaining too much steam with the rest of the Region. Seems they don't like change. I think the main reason the Falls never got used to it was, they went straight to the numbering system unlike the West Dept's that still say the apparatus type plus the numbers. Gonna be interesting to see how things transpire going forward.

The excuse or justification for implementing it was that "West Lincoln Pump 1" could possibly get mixed up with "Lincoln Pump 1" as well as the ladder trucks, rescues and so on if they clip the beginning of their message. This "solution" doesn't fix anything about this, as both units are still "one-one" or "five-one" if the beginning of the message is clipped.

If this were the legitimate concern, West Niagara could have actually solved the problem by going;

Lincoln Pump 1, 2, 3, 4, Grimsby Pump 5 and 6 and West Lincoln Pump 7 and 8
Lincoln Aerial 1, Grimsby Aerial 2, WL Aerial 3
... so on

I don't understand how when listening for Thorold Pump 1, that "Eight-One-One" will make it easier to recognize that it's Pump 1 from Thorold than..... "Thorold Pump 1"

As for "taking up waaay less airtime"

Thorold Pump 1 and Eight One One, Pelham Pump One and Nine One One all have the same number of syllables (sounds).

West Lincoln Ladder 1 and Eleven One Five... Not much time saved there either.

Then you get in to confusion on guys helmet numbers and the fact that dispatch has to listen to thirteen different departments coming from the same speaker. 411 is fort Erie Pump 4 but Firefighter 411 calls a mayday? Or 611 calls on scene in Command at King St and Main St. While 811 is on scene with 611 in command.

Seeing as the solution hasn't fixed the problem that it was developed for (in the event that the first syllable is clipped), the risk and confusion seem to far outweigh any kind of perk of the system.

fire4117 said:

I would say so yes.

Once everyone gets used to the new system, crews on the fire ground (especially during a mutual aid call) hear a specific apparatus responding (i.e. 111) and they know exactly what type of truck is on the way (a pumper from St Catharines). In addition to taking up waaay less airtime, it also helps to streamline operations.

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I know that I'm doubling up on what I posted, but again... I don't understand how when listening for St. Catharines Pump 1, that "St. Catharines Pump 1" is less clear than "One One One"

xji131 said:

The excuse or justification for implementing it was that "West Lincoln Pump 1" could possibly get mixed up with "Lincoln Pump 1" as well as the ladder trucks, rescues and so on if they clip the beginning of their message. This "solution" doesn't fix anything about this, as both units are still "one-one" or "five-one" if the beginning of the message is clipped.

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York Region Fire has been using this type of numbering system for almost 20 years now and it's worked for them with no issues.

Perhaps the if they had retrained the crews to ensure they push-pause-talk before speaking, as well as maybe prefixing the truck with the designation.of the unit ("St Catharines Control, Pump 6-1-1"), they might not have had any issues. I know prefixing the apparatus number may defeat the purpose of having the numbering scheme, but York Region used to also prefix their trucks with the name (ie "Richmond Hill Control, Engine 4-2-1") but they eventually got away from saying the name as well and just said the number (4-2-1).

The other part of that is if the trucks are beginning their transmissions with the dispatch centre's name, there shouldn't be an issue with clipping.

Just my 2 cents.