antenna for scanner? discone?

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

I was looking at a Diamond D series discone when I found this one for half the price
MFJ 1868 Vertical Antenna 6M 23cm Discone UHF | eBay
I could go up on my roof and mount it to a 5-7' long piece of PVC but is this a good choice antenna for general all band scanning? I also have a HT that id like to talk on local repeater no base unit yet thanks

chief21 · Apr 6, 2016

Two suggestions -

Check the specifications carefully when comparing the MFJ item to similar discones. MFJ has a reputation for less-than-stellar quality. For example, the radials might be hollow aluminum as opposed to solid stainless, or the supplied hardware might not be stainless.

I would not recommend the use of PVC for an outdoor antenna mast. The PVC bends easily in the wind and will eventually begin to disintegrate from UV.

Good luck.

John AC4JK

comoman · Apr 6, 2016

I've got that exactly same Discone antenna and it doesn't seem to receive as well as I thought it should. A neighbor nearby is only using the factory antenna in the back of his receiver and it receives better than mine. The only differences is, he has a Bearcat 300A and I have a Bearcat 700A scanner. My Discone antenna is 35 feet in the air.

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

I was watching a you tube video and it appears even the diamond has hollow radials and its a lil over $100 =/

mmckenna · Apr 6, 2016

Discones, in general, are not stellar performers. To top it off, the joke is MFJ stands for "Mighty Fine Junk". In other words, a compromise antenna made by a company not known for high end equipment.

Not sure where you are or what you are wanting to listen to, but there may be other options. Discone's are kind of a good catch all if you don't know what you need, but if you have a clear definition of what you want to listen to, you can do better in most cases.
And I'd agree, don't use PVC as an antenna support. Even if you did use UV stabilized stuff, like non-metallic conduit, it's still pretty flimsy. Using a non-conductive mast doesn't address any lightning safety issues, either.

If you can enlighten us to what you want to listen to and what your budget is, we might be able to provide some options.

comoman · Apr 6, 2016

mmckenna said:
Discones, in general, are not stellar performers. To top it off, the joke is MFJ stands for "Mighty Fine Junk". In other words, a compromise antenna made by a company not known for high end equipment.

Not sure where you are or what you are wanting to listen to, but there may be other options. Discone's are kind of a good catch all if you don't know what you need, but if you have a clear definition of what you want to listen to, you can do better in most cases.
And I'd agree, don't use PVC as an antenna support. Even if you did use UV stabilized stuff, like non-metallic conduit, it's still pretty flimsy. Using a non-conductive mast doesn't address any lightning safety issues, either.

If you can enlighten us to what you want to listen to and what your budget is, we might be able to provide some options.

My Uniden Bearcat 700A has frequencies from 30 to 900 MHz Surely there's an antenna that designed to work with it. I realize part of my poor reception could be the db loss because of the 70' long coax but my neighbor still should be able to receive more on his Uniden Bearcat 300A with a short telescoping antenna sticking up from the back of the receiver. We've been talking on the telephone and I can hear his scanner picking up a lot more than mine. Short of there being something wrong with my receiver that shouldn't happen.

mmckenna · Apr 6, 2016

comoman said:
My Uniden Bearcat 700A has frequencies from 30 to 900 MHz Surely there's an antenna that designed to work with it. I realize part of my poor reception could be the db loss because of the 70' long coax but my neighbor still should be able to receive more on his Uniden Bearcat 300A with a short telescoping antenna sticking up from the back of the receiver. We've been talking on the telephone and I can hear his scanner picking up a lot more than mine. Short of there being something wrong with my receiver that shouldn't happen.

Location can be a big part of it. You could be in the shadow of some topographical feature. Multipath could be cancelling out some signals on your end. Coax losses could be too great due to low quality coax, water in the cable, damaged connectors, corrosion, etc.

Discone antennas traditionally show 0dB of gain. Add in a lot of coax loss or desense and it's entirely possible that a back of set antenna would receive better. After all, he has zero feed line loss to deal with.

A discone will work for your radio, but like I said, they are not outstanding performers. The consumer grade ones have been shown to be exceptionally poor performers under about 100MHz due to their size.

I can take a rusty nail and call it an "all band" antenna because in reality it will pick up something if the signal is strong enough.

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

well I have the BCD536HP and I want to listen to everything that it can recieve!!!!!!

especially cops..... most of which are on 400mhz or new p25 system

if theres something I could homebrew that is going to be better than say a Diamond brand discone for $110 LMK!

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

I mean if I should just sitck with the one on the back of the radio thats cool too but I figured I'd get better reception and in the event that I needed to transmit on my little ht i could get out at least a little ways more than the flopper that comes with it, about line loss, the diamond has 50' of coax

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

how do you delete a post you've made theres no button or anything that says delete like that last '123' message is just cuz it wanted 3 characters but i didnt mean to post it

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

and with everyone ****ting on the discone then what is the best antenna for my scanner???????? the one on the back of it ??????????

jackj · Apr 6, 2016

Discone

A discone antenna will not receive as well as a 1/4 wave antenna at the 1/4 wave's design frequency. But it will work much, much better than a 1/4 wave when receiving frequencies that are out of the 1/4 wave's design frequency. Like all broadband antennas, a discone is a compromise that is biased toward bandwidth.

I use an old discone I bought from RS many years ago. I was monitoring VHF hi-band and UHF with plans to switch over to 900 MHz when the state and local LEOs made the switch when I bought it. It worked better than I expected and continues to be a better investment in monitoring than most other stuff I've owned. But I use low loss Belden 50 ohm transmission line so I have less line loss than most.

ka3jjz · Apr 6, 2016

Another question - in your original post you mentioned wanting to talk on a HT and get to your local repeater. What frequency is this repeater? If it's on 2 meters or 450, then a dual band vertical will more than fit the bill. Many such antennas are more than broadbanded enough to hear a UHF public service trunk, and very well too. Low band (depending on the design) and 800 won't nearly be quite as good

You might also want to take a look at the NilJon (now MP Antennas) offerings. Some of their offerings are found on the Universal Radio website, viz.

Scanner Antennas

Check out the reviews online (eHam, etc.) - A good Google search will turn them up. As is nearly always the case, some like, some don't...

There are alternatives - you just need to be like a gopher and dig...

Mike

mmckenna · Apr 6, 2016

antimatt3r said:
and with everyone ****ting on the discone then what is the best antenna for my scanner???????? the one on the back of it ??????????

It would still help us if we knew a general idea where you were.... North Coast means different things to different people. Being able to know what's out there in your area can help suggest an antenna.

What is going to work "best" is:
1. something you can actually afford. This is why knowing what your budget is helps so much.
2. something designed to be resonate on the frequency ( or frequencies) you want to listen to.
3. something you can actually get outside and up high

In an "ideal" setup you'd have dedicated antennas on each band that actually exhibited some gain.
It would be connected to your radio with appropriately sized/spec'd feedline

Budget is important since there is little point in suggesting a system thats so far outside your budget that there isn't any reasonable way you can afford it. I could spec out a really nice system if you had a few thousand dollars to blow on this. If your budget is more in the $100 range, that's going to change things.

While a discone can be resonate on a very wide range of frequencies, it does this at the cost of antenna gain. To top it off they have a funky radiation pattern that makes them not always the best choice for transmitting. Again, a rusty nail can be tricked into working well with nearly any radio, but it's probably going to suck in most cases.

In many cases a dual or tri band amateur base antenna might be a better choice as it'll have some gain on useable frequencies. VHF and UHF is where a lot of the popular stuff is. If you need 700/800MHz you might chose a dedicated antenna for those bands. If you are trying to pick up a specific system/site, then a directional antenna might be a better choice.

A discone -can- be an excellent choice if you need to transmit and receive over a wide chunk of the VHF/UHF bands. It's not going to work great for anything, but will be passable on most. It's a good "single choice" antenna.

Really, though, check into a dual band amateur base antenna. They'll work well in many places and probably work OK on 700/800MHz.

And, if you are going to invest in an antenna, don't cut corners by using crappy feed line. If you use cheap cable you are going to severely cripple the system performance. You don't need to break the bank using high end hardline, but depending on the distance from your radio to the antenna there are a range of choices and costs. Knowing what the distances involved are really helps us make suggestions.

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

id say my budget is $250 and I want an antenna that I can scan all bands with and transmit and recieve on my HT to the local repeater, I am located in Cleveland ohio
my local repeaters are 146.760- MHz and 444.400+ MHz but isint p25 up in the 800 range? so yeah I guess its either buy three or four separate antennas and run the line for each or find one that is gonna be acceptable for all bands (discone?) unless I can homebrew an antenna for each band for $25-50 but even then how would I connect ALL those antennas to one scanner? sigh. more confused now not less I really need a good unit that will work to listen to the police and transmit / receive with my ht to the local repeaters

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

some day I plan to get a base unit transceiver and my license and start hamming too but for now im just scanning

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

I guess **** it ill just use the one on the back of the damn scanner even inside my house I can hear cities a good 10-15 miles away with it

antimatt3r · Apr 6, 2016

mmckenna said:
It would still help us if we knew a general idea where you were.... North Coast means different things to different people. Being able to know what's out there in your area can help suggest an antenna.

What is going to work "best" is:
1. something you can actually afford. This is why knowing what your budget is helps so much.
2. something designed to be resonate on the frequency ( or frequencies) you want to listen to.
3. something you can actually get outside and up high

In an "ideal" setup you'd have dedicated antennas on each band that actually exhibited some gain.
It would be connected to your radio with appropriately sized/spec'd feedline

Budget is important since there is little point in suggesting a system thats so far outside your budget that there isn't any reasonable way you can afford it. I could spec out a really nice system if you had a few thousand dollars to blow on this. If your budget is more in the $100 range, that's going to change things.

While a discone can be resonate on a very wide range of frequencies, it does this at the cost of antenna gain. To top it off they have a funky radiation pattern that makes them not always the best choice for transmitting. Again, a rusty nail can be tricked into working well with nearly any radio, but it's probably going to suck in most cases.

In many cases a dual or tri band amateur base antenna might be a better choice as it'll have some gain on useable frequencies. VHF and UHF is where a lot of the popular stuff is. If you need 700/800MHz you might chose a dedicated antenna for those bands. If you are trying to pick up a specific system/site, then a directional antenna might be a better choice.

A discone -can- be an excellent choice if you need to transmit and receive over a wide chunk of the VHF/UHF bands. It's not going to work great for anything, but will be passable on most. It's a good "single choice" antenna.

Really, though, check into a dual band amateur base antenna. They'll work well in many places and probably work OK on 700/800MHz.

And, if you are going to invest in an antenna, don't cut corners by using crappy feed line. If you use cheap cable you are going to severely cripple the system performance. You don't need to break the bank using high end hardline, but depending on the distance from your radio to the antenna there are a range of choices and costs. Knowing what the distances involved are really helps us make suggestions.

the ones ive been looking at come with like 50' of cable

mmckenna · Apr 6, 2016

antimatt3r said:
id say my budget is $250 and I want an antenna that I can scan all bands with and transmit and recieve on my HT to the local repeater, I am located in Cleveland ohio
my local repeaters are 146.760- MHz and 444.400+ MHz

Get a dual or tri band amateur antenna. It'll work much better on VHF and UHF than a discone, and it'll receive much better on VHF and UHF. It'll work (probably) just as well, if not better, on 800 and it will have at least some performance on VHF-low, where the discone would have little.

antimatt3r said:
but isint p25 up in the 800 range?

P25 is an emission type, not related to frequency. P25 can be used just about anywhere.
But, since a lot of public safety trunked systems are on the 700 and 800MHz bands, you should consider those. The dual/tri band antenna will probably work better than the discone, but I'm hoping someone else can confirm that.

antimatt3r said:
so yeah I guess its either buy three or four separate antennas and run the line for each or find one that is gonna be acceptable for all bands (discone?) unless I can homebrew an antenna for each band for $25-50 but even then how would I connect ALL those antennas to one scanner? sigh. more confused now not less I really need a good unit that will work to listen to the police and transmit / receive with my ht to the local repeaters

Combining 4 separate antennas would be an ideal way to do this, but the technology will exceed your budget. It's not as simple as joining them all together.

I know this doesn't help, but this is sort of the place where a discone starts to make sense. If you absolutely can only have one antenna, it -might- be the way to go if you can deal with the lackluster performance.

Since you plan on using the antenna for transmitting and said you might add a base radio later on, I'd recommend going with one of the dedicated dual or tri band amateur antennas. It'll work for receiving and it'll work MUCH better for transmitting. I use a Diamond discone for transmitting on 2 meters, and while it does work, it doesn't work well. I live in a valley, so I don't need much to cover my area. Where you are you'd really get more enjoyment out of a better performing antenna on the amateur radio side. It will work for receiving.

So, you can't have your scanner and transmitter connected to the same antenna at the same time in any way that makes sense for what you want to do, so you are going to need a second antenna at some point for your scanner. Buy the dual/tri band antenna now and see how that works. When it comes time to get the scanner antenna you'll have a better idea what'll work, what you want to listen to, and probably have a better idea on the budget. That's the path I'd take. You'll still have a good antenna for your amateur band use. I would't buy a discone and count on it as a good performer for amateur use.

antenna for scanner? discone?

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