Do These Specs Exist in a Single Radio?

rgchristy · Apr 15, 2016

Hi,

I'm trying to figure out if there is a non-Motorola radio with the following specs:

450-512 MHz
DMR + Analog
CTCSS & DCS
Dual Band (I don't think so yet)
Alphanumeric display (for objects, members, channels, talk groups, etc.)
Full keypad with programming capability (doesn't have to be full programming)
500 - 1000 channels
Ability to scan greater than 16 (objects, members, channels, talk groups, etc.) at once up to the total number of channels (500 or 1000) either by a scanlist, multiple scanlists or multiple zones
Software programming capability by the end user

I really like Motorola radios and have used them professionally for years, but I stated non-Motorola because I want to be able to program the radio myself and not be reliant upon a radio shop.

I'm asking this because I'm trying to reduce the number of radios/scanners that I carry around and DMR has become widely used in our area. I also realize that radios scan much slower than scanners. Also, I don't need P25 capability either.

So far, I believe that the Vertex Standard VXD-720 and eVerge 539 radios might work, but I haven't been able to figure out their scanning capabilities.

I realize that this could be a pipe-dream, but I believe that it's worth asking, as I'm sure that there are others out there in my shoes.

Thank you in advance for any information that you could provide.

Take Care,

Rich C

ElroyJetson · Apr 15, 2016

You can get the programming software and cables from Motorola for most any radio.

I don't see much of anything in the way of dual band portable DMR radios. I suspect the demand is rather low so the manufacturers haven't made the effort to make them.

I'm not sure about the scan list limits, but in every other respect you're pretty much specifying a Motorola XPR 7000 series radio.

a417 · Apr 15, 2016

you're basically describing another scanner, with EJ's aforementioned point about a dual band DMR radio.

If you're already carrying multiple scanners, and you're describing another scanner...what's one more?

rgchristy · Apr 15, 2016

thebigphish said:
you're basically describing another scanner, with EJ's aforementioned point about a dual band DMR radio.

If you're already carrying multiple scanners, and you're describing another scanner...what's one more?

As far as I know, a scanner that does DMR. I don't believe that one exists....yet.

I would though, like the better performance of a radio.

SCPD · Apr 15, 2016

Connect Systems has a radio in the works: Connect Systems their plan now is to make it dual band otherwise their CS700 does most of what you want

a417 · Apr 15, 2016

rgchristy said:
As far as I know, a scanner that does DMR. I don't believe that one exists....yet.

I would though, like the better performance of a radio.

I meant to write "you're basically describing another scanner, save EJ's point about DMR..." (sheesh, i gotta check what i write)

The part about the performance part is a tough subject though, what performance exactly do you mean?

The only time I would give the award to a radio over a scanner, would be that of RX selectivity in a particular range...which purpose built TX/RX decks will excel at. Otherwise, all of the things he listed (save DMR capabilities) are accomplished by a scanner. Performance is a personal metric, so my idea of performance will be different than your version of performance.

mmckenna · Apr 15, 2016

If you can wait a little bit Kenwood will be offering some options:

NX-5000 line of radios will be getting a DMR option later on this year (what I was told by a Kenwood engineer).
That would get you a radio (mobile or portable) that will do analog, NXDN/NexEdge trunking, P25 1&2, and DMR. You can add a 4000 channel option as well as FPP option. Bluetooth and GPS.
It'll be a bit pricey. Probably $1000 or so, but details on the DMR option are not out yet.

They'll also be releasing a mid-tier DMR radio later on this year. It'll likely have all the spec's you want. Likely 512 channels. Multiple zones, multiple scan lists.
Kenwood programming software is reasonably priced and pretty easy to learn.

None of these are available today, but they are coming, if you can wait. They do have some low tier DMR radios out now, but no display.

rgchristy · Apr 16, 2016

Thanks for the input. It looks like the NX-5000 series radios are currently available in P25/NXDN.

I'm not worried about dual-band and a price of $1000 is really pretty good considering the features and the ability to upgrade.

Time is on my side and it appears it will be worth the wait.

rgchristy · Apr 16, 2016

Now that I have a radio make/model to consider, there are a couple of excellent threads on here:

http://forums.radioreference.com/kenwood-forum/328161-kenwood-nx-5000-dmr.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/kenwood-forum/326385-nx-5000-series-q-info-details.html

If anyone knows of any other radio options, that would be great!

Thanks for everyone's help.

Rich

slicerwizard · Apr 16, 2016

mmckenna said:
If you can wait a little bit Kenwood will be offering some options:

NX-5000 line of radios will be getting a DMR option later on this year (what I was told by a Kenwood engineer).
That would get you a radio (mobile or portable) that will do analog, NXDN/NexEdge trunking,

Pretty sure a radio programmed for NexEdge trunk monitoring will try to register with the system and be rejected. And programming trunk channels as conventional NXDN channels doesn't work (different sync patterns). So no NexEdge trunking unless you're a subscriber - unless things have changed in the last year or two?

Then again, the OP doesn't seem to be looking for NXDN...

mmckenna · Apr 16, 2016

rgchristy said:
Thanks for the input. It looks like the NX-5000 series radios are currently available in P25/NXDN.

Correct. As of right now, the basic radio includes analog and NXDN/NexEdge.
List price for a UHF hand held, 450 - 520MHz is $825. $875 if you want the full keypad. It isn't difficult to knock 20% off list if you shop around. State contract I purchase under is 30% off list.
1024 channels is standard. 4000 channel option is $420 list.
Front Panel Programming is $320 list

License Keys for P25 get expensive, conventional P25, P25 Phase one trunking, P25 Phase two trunking, OTAR, AES/DES encryption, etc.....

rgchristy said:
I'm not worried about dual-band and a price of $1000 is really pretty good considering the features and the ability to upgrade.

Time is on my side and it appears it will be worth the wait.

Portables are single band only. Mobiles are single band, however you can purchase a kit to add up to 3 RF decks (any combination of VHF, UHF, 700/800MHz) and up to two control heads.
Again, not cheap when you start tricking one of these out all the way, but a helluva lot cheaper than ∆∆.

I just got a VHF Mobile in at work, but the vehicle that it's going in hasn't come back from the upfitter yet, so I haven't had a chance to play with it. I'll probably start purchasing the portables for some our higher need applications next FY. From what I've read they've been getting great reviews. Kenwood is sinking a lot into these radios and seem to really want to build it out. DMR is coming for these, and I'm told that Low Band VHF is being talked about.

I was at IWCE a few weeks ago and didn't see anything comparable from any of the other manufacturers. I think some are hoping Motorola will build a similar radio, but their marketing structure doesn't seem to want to bend this way. It'd be interesting to see if some of the other manufacturers start going in this direction.

mmckenna · Apr 16, 2016

slicerwizard said:
Pretty sure a radio programmed for NexEdge trunk monitoring will try to register with the system and be rejected. And programming trunk channels as conventional NXDN channels doesn't work (different sync patterns). So no NexEdge trunking unless you're a subscriber - unless things have changed in the last year or two?

Then again, the OP doesn't seem to be looking for NXDN...

The programming software won't let you program a trunked system, even in RX only, without the system key.
Also, the trunked system itself can be set up to require the radio ESN to match what's programmed into the system, and that must match the radio ID that's programmed into the radio and the system. There isn't any way around this. I've played with it extensively and a radio that isn't programmed into the system will not receive traffic. Even getting a valid ESN and a valid radio ID not matched will block the radio from the system. Really easy to make a typo when putting a new radio on the system and have it not work....

The trunked system packets have a bit that tags it as from a trunked system. An NexEdge radio set to conventional mode with a RAN of 0 will not decode packets from a NexEdge trunked system. It'll receive them, but nothing comes out the speaker.

I'm sure someone will eventually figure out a way around that, but I haven't heard of it happening yet. I wouldn't fool myself into thinking it's not going to happen at some point.
Also, the NexEdge radios will do encryption natively. It's just setting up a key and checking a box. While not super strong encryption, it's enough to keep casual listeners out. Couple the encryption with the ESN validation and it's a handful to get a foreign radio on the system. Maybe the SDR listeners will figure a way around the listening part.

reconrider8 · Apr 16, 2016

On that note of sdr's, I'm waiting for someone to start writing code to get around some kind of encryption soon also. Idk if it's even possible bug I would love to see this. #cantwealldreamabit

mmckenna · Apr 16, 2016

reconrider8 said:
On that note of sdr's, I'm waiting for someone to start writing code to get around some kind of encryption soon also. Idk if it's even possible bug I would love to see this. #cantwealldreamabit

Legality issues and sheer processing power to decode the higher end encryption will make this unlikely anytime in the near future.

reconrider8 · Apr 16, 2016

Yea but I'm sure with the way technology is going it will happen at some point. I know the lower level P4 is already being decrypted on small scale applications

Do These Specs Exist in a Single Radio?

rgchristy

Member

ElroyJetson

I AM NOT YOUR TECH SUPPPORT.

a417

Active Member

rgchristy

Member

SCPD

QRT

a417

Active Member

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø

rgchristy

Member

rgchristy

Member

slicerwizard

Member

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø

reconrider8

Member

mmckenna

I ♥ Ø

reconrider8

Member

Similar threads