Simulcast P25: Whistler or Uniden

AggieCon · May 13, 2016

Howdy,

I am looking to get a handheld scanner for my girlfriend. She is an engineer and competent with computers, so complexity is not an issue.

She'd be using it to scan some of everything, but, most importantly it would need to handle the Phase 1 and Phase 2 P25 simulcast systems in our area. I have a Whistler 1080, but it is just marginal on the P25 simulcast (interestingly, it handles TDMA better than Phase 1, which I guess is due to the different demodulation spec... or perhaps all in my head). I love the interface and features of the Whistler.

However, I've read a few places that people seem to think the Unidens handle the LSM simulcast traffic better. Is this your experience? And, if so, how much of an improvement is it over the Whistler? Is it really superior?

I also like that the Unidens have the close call feature. In practice, does that work well, or is it just marketing?

Finally, which model do you recommend? I'm not excited about the prices the upper end versions are going for. I was impressed by some of the advanced features available (?? for an additional upgrade ??) with the fancy Home Patrol model. Does anyone have any experience in that area?

It's all a bit disappointing since for much less I could have a computer and a cheap receiver that decodes the LSM P25 TDMA perfectly. But perhaps the a Uniden scanner would be acceptable.

I appreciate any input I am able to solicit. Have a good weekend.

Justin

BenScan · May 13, 2016

I prefer the user interface and many other features of the Unidens. It's much easier to get to a specific channel for me. Unfortunately, neither the Whistlers or the Unidens do very well with simulcast P25 systems. When the Whistlers work, they sound better to me.

If you're in a fixed position, you can improve reception with a yagi antenna and other holding-your-mouth-just-right techniques. However, for mobile and handheld scanning, expect to miss a lot of traffic, if you're between 2 or more towers with similar signal strength. It's a battle for me in NE Tarrant County/Dallas/Fort Worth area. I know that I'm missing traffic, because I have a Motorola XTS 5000, which works fine in the same areas. I do have a Whistler 1080 and 1095, but wouldn't buy them again. Although I am not happy with LSM performance of Unidens, I've bought more than one of the BCD536s, and the BCD996P2s, because I cannot afford the price tag or complexity of real/two-way radios. Hopefully, Uniden and Whistler will both upgrade what they need to in future versions, so I can more confidently tell people who ask me, what to buy.

Happy Scanning,
Ben

marksmith · May 13, 2016

I have similar experience with the last post. Whistlers sound good when they work, Uniden interface better, no scanner real good on simulcast, depending on your location.

Unlike the above, because one local simulcast has towers equidistant to me I cannot receive at home, but listen fine while mobile.

Best recommendation is probably Uniden 436, 536, or Home Patrol 2. The first two have some good filters especially if you are in a metro area. All 3 do as good as any scanner on simulcast. All 3 are phase 2 receivers.

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652

AggieCon · May 13, 2016

It sounds like I shouldn't expect any major improvement between the two. I guess it's between the 1080/1088 and 436 then. For streaming, I think the 536 would be superior, though, but that's not what she needs.

What's involved in making a professional radio work as a scanner? Or is your radio for work? If used as a scanner, how do you make it ignore various commands like dynamic regrouping or kill commands?

Has anyone used the Uniden Extreme Upgrade? Looks like neat features, but paying more on top of $500. Wow.

Besides the option to pay to add ProVoice and the close call feature, am I gaining that much for the $100+ more for the 436 over the 1080?

BenScan · May 13, 2016

The Motorola I use is a fire department issued one, and I have it set up to scan. However, it's very limited, in that I can only choose 15 or fewer channels to scan, and it's just not as flexible. Although, it's possible to find and buy used radios cheaper, programming them is a lot more complicated, and not nearly as convenient as a scanner. Plus, from what I understand, if not done properly, they can be bricked by the radio system administrators.

I have the Provoice upgrade, and it's well worth it for me, even if the one system I monitor, will be going to P25 soon. I've enjoyed being able to monitor them again.

I can't remember what the extreme upgrade includes. I do use Discovery Mode a lot, to find new channels. If that's part of the extreme upgrade, and you want that capability, then it's worth it. The other analysis stuff isn't particularly useful to me. It just shows what a great signal I have from my location, but it doesn't tell me that I can't decode and hear it because the poorly designed/spec'd scanner cannot deal with the LSM problem.

marksmith · May 13, 2016

If you get the home patrol 2, then get the upgrade. It does not apply to the 436 or 536.

It has good tools for evaluating or positioning antennas, analyzing trunked systems, searching out new frequencies, etc.

By the way, both the 436 and 536 do not have the best screens for reading. Lots of info, but it's mostly pretty small. The hp2 has a color touch screen that is easy to read, and the extreme stuff is great in color.

If you want provoice, then you have to go 436.

I like the 436 better than the 1088 (I have 2 equivalents, the psr800 and pro688. While they sound good, the recording and programming features I think are better on the Uniden.

Mark
WS1095/536/436/996P2/HP1e/HP2e/996XT/325P2/396XT/PRO668/PSR800/PRO652

Ronaldski · May 13, 2016

See this thread and you'll see your answer, Uniden. My comments are in post 39.
http://forums.radioreference.com/radio-shack-scanners/332670-cant-receive-wv-sirn-ohio-marcs.html

Voyager · May 14, 2016

AggieCon said:
However, I've read a few places that people seem to think the Unidens handle the LSM simulcast traffic better. Is this your experience? And, if so, how much of an improvement is it over the Whistler? Is it really superior?

It seems to be system-based as to which one works better. On my local system, the Uniden wins hands-down. Others have posted on their systems that GRE/Whistler works better.

Talk to those scanning the system you want to hear, and ask them which one works better.

slicerwizard · May 14, 2016

Voyager said:
On my local system, the Uniden wins hands-down.

Shocking...

LZ56 · May 14, 2016

AggieCon said:
I've read a few places that people seem to think the Unidens handle the LSM simulcast traffic better. Is this your experience? And, if so, how much of an improvement is it over the Whistler? Is it really superior?

About half of the P25 transmissions on my HP-1 suffer from various degrees of simulcast distortion; ranging from just minor annoyance to making the whole transmission unintelligible. It doesn't matter what antenna I use (roof-mounted discone, mobile antenna, stock HP-1 antenna indoors, or even paper clip) the simulcast distortion is ALWAYS a problem. Uniden and Whistler do not have the proper circuitry in their scanners to deliver a clean and pristine simulcast signal, whereas Motorola and other professional receiver companies do. Uniden and Whistler take shortcuts to keep the expense down. For some reason they don't think any scanner hobbyists will plunk down 2 grand for a scanner with a properly designed simulcast decode/demod circuit. I disagree with their assumption.

Ensnared · May 15, 2016

Whistler Saving Up

AggieCon said:
Howdy,

I am looking to get a handheld scanner for my girlfriend. She is an engineer and competent with computers, so complexity is not an issue.

She'd be using it to scan some of everything, but, most importantly it would need to handle the Phase 1 and Phase 2 P25 simulcast systems in our area. I have a Whistler 1080, but it is just marginal on the P25 simulcast (interestingly, it handles TDMA better than Phase 1, which I guess is due to the different demodulation spec... or perhaps all in my head). I love the interface and features of the Whistler.

However, I've read a few places that people seem to think the Unidens handle the LSM simulcast traffic better. Is this your experience? And, if so, how much of an improvement is it over the Whistler? Is it really superior?

I also like that the Unidens have the close call feature. In practice, does that work well, or is it just marketing?

Finally, which model do you recommend? I'm not excited about the prices the upper end versions are going for. I was impressed by some of the advanced features available (?? for an additional upgrade ??) with the fancy Home Patrol model. Does anyone have any experience in that area?

It's all a bit disappointing since for much less I could have a computer and a cheap receiver that decodes the LSM P25 TDMA perfectly. But perhaps the a Uniden scanner would be acceptable.

I appreciate any input I am able to solicit. Have a good weekend.

Justin

At present, I own a GRE PSR 500 and Uniden 436HP. After reading the P25 improvements reported for the Whistler 1088, described as "improved P25 functionality", I am strongly considering going back to my preferred brand, not Uniden.

Yes, I love my 436HP, but hate the memory architecture. I understand that this new radio handles P25 simulcast distortion quite well. I bought the 436HP to handle the local linear simulcast distortion. It works fairly well. My PSR 500 was horrible on simulcast distortion.

Voyager · May 15, 2016

If you were used to the GRE/Whistler scheme, the Uniden scheme will seem bad. If it's any consolation, it works the other way, too. It's just a matter of learning each one.

AggieCon · May 15, 2016

So 436 it is, then?

Ensnared · May 21, 2016

Matter of Identified Need

AggieCon said:
So 436 it is, then?

If you are not wanting to listen to ProVoice transmissions around the country, then you could get the 1088 or equivalent base model. If you want to hear Provoice, you must pay an additional $50 for the firmware upgrade, only two radios, the 436/536 HP models. I know, without a shadow of a doubt, that Uniden does not possess the volume or voice quality of GRE and/or Whistler radios.

As I previously indicated, I am going to purchase the 1088. Also, be advised, it has been rumored that Uniden will be coming out with a major hitter this year. We don't what surprises are in store. Perhaps, these radios will be able to access radio system currently difficult to setup and monitor. I would read about others comments on the 1088 regarding how well this radio can handle P25 linear simulcast distortion.

BenScan · Jul 14, 2016

Here's a video as an example of the Unication G5 pulling in the Fort Worth Regional Radio System, layer 2/P25 simulcast. I had the Uniden BCD436 and Whistler 1080 scanners focused on Fort Worth Fire as well, and they just don't get it. Now, I could probably move the Uniden and the Whistler to certain spots and get ok reception, but with the G5, it's not necessary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsxxUoLDLEk

That's not to say the Unication G5 is for everyone, but it will certainly relieve some of the simulcast issues I have. It will be especially nice while driving or walking around, when it's not practical to hold your mouth just right, and point a yagi at some random direction, like I have to do with Uniden and Whistler scanners.

Happy Scanning!

AggieCon · Jul 14, 2016

That is awesome! What a cool radio. Cool display too. I've got to get one.

It clearly blows the other two away. Heck, that WS1080 wasn't even decoding the control channel except for about a millisecond to catch the dispatch that it almost immediately dropped. Thanks for posting this.

Where did you get the radio? And have they said anything about a Phase 2 TDMA capable version?

Is it a software or hardware radio?

BenScan · Jul 14, 2016

I purchased mine from Ray at Unication Pagers for Fire & EMS Services - Ray's Pager Sales

Phase 2 is suppose to be a firmware upgrade at the end of 2016, beginning of 2017.

I do not know the answer the to the last question.

It's somewhat limited compared to your typical scanner. However, if there are certain P25 trunked systems that you want to focus on, it may very well be worth the money.

It would be nice if Uniden and Whistler paid attention to us and gave us the receive quality of the Unication G5 in their scanners. As you can tell from this purchase, I'm willing to pay for something that actually works and lets me hear the systems in my area!

I really do want Uniden and Whistler to succeed with their products. Perhaps, if more people let them know that we want quality stuff it will happen. Until then, I'm already thinking about which Unidens and Whistlers I might sell from my collection, so that I can put the money towards another G5.

AggieCon said:
That is awesome! What a cool radio. Cool display too. I've got to get one.

It clearly blows the other two away. Heck, that WS1080 wasn't even decoding the control channel except for about a millisecond to catch the dispatch that it almost immediately dropped. Thanks for posting this.

Where did you get the radio? And have they said anything about a Phase 2 TDMA capable version?

Is it a software or hardware radio?

z31jaime · Jul 14, 2016

How much was it?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

troymail · Jul 14, 2016

AggieCon said:
So 436 it is, then?

The 436 handles simulcast beter IF (big IF) it actually stops on activity - but therein lies the problem - it skips over alot of activity. In cases where the Whislters stop but may sound garbled, the Uniden just scan right by without stopping. You think the Uniden is working better but in reality only sometimes.

BenScan · Jul 14, 2016

Regular, high retail is $895, and worth it so far.

There are some deals if you trade in a Minitor pager.

JameyNotNormal said:
How much was it?

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

Simulcast P25: Whistler or Uniden

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