RR Database Annoyance...

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tim

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
476
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
Greetings all...

Am I the only one that gets annoyed by the fact that if a TRS is tagged to multiple counties, it will highlight every county that was tagged as having an update. Case in point, in Wisconsin section...ADMIN created an Alliant Energy TRS for several states IA / IL / WI. All 72 counties in the state of Wisconsin now shows green, but there is no information posted for WI in this system.

Another instance, Digi-Talk (NID-14) system is a NXD TRS that is in multiple states. When someone updates ILL's part of the system, nearly a dozen Wisconsin states turn to green because they are tagged for the system (Even though there is no WI information added).

Perhaps there could be separate state tagging for these multiple state systems that it would only highlight that state for which was updated?

Tim
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
I absolutely agree. There is a military system in San Diego county that sets the update flag because of changes made to the system in other states that are 1000s of miles away. A change to a TG in Virginia shows up as a change to San Diego county.

I see there is a new system in the county that behaves the same way. With a couple more of these systems, I'll unnecessarily be checking for updates daily.
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
This morning SD county is flagged as having changes so I go look to see what changed. Oh, glad I wasted my time to find out about the the added/edited TGs in DFW. Useless unneeded information for me.
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA

mtindor

OH/WV DB Admin
Database Admin
Joined
Dec 5, 2006
Messages
10,362
Location
Carroll Co OH / EN90LN
So the majority of us have to suffer for the benefit of the few that choose to listen to school buses in multiple states?

I think of it as the majority of you have to consider what you are getting for free. And no, I don't care if you are a subscriber. The website / database web interface are free to all. So for free, you have no right to complain. Sure, you all will. But you don't have any right to :)

Mike
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
I think of it as the majority of you have to consider what you are getting for free. And no, I don't care if you are a subscriber. The website / database web interface are free to all. So for free, you have no right to complain. Sure, you all will. But you don't have any right to :)

Mike

So you are of the opinion that nothing should be done to improve the current function of the UI to the database?
 

sfd119

Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2009
Messages
1,763
+1 for this discussion. If it is not in my county, I don't want to see it flagged like OP.
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
I would think that this would be of interest to Lindsay as well as the users. Wouldn't it be beneficial to him to reduce the load on the DB servers and the network traffic to and from them?
 
D

DaveNF2G

Guest
+1 on W6KRU's comment, and others.

Ultimately, whether we "customers" of the RRDB are paying or not, does it not make sense to provide the services said customers wish to receive? Lindsay already knows this; he is a successful businessman. Those who try to "defend" him by asserting that we have no right to complain probably are not, and are doing Lindsay and RR.com a disservice.

I agree that it is inconvenient at best, as well as confusing, to figure out what has been updated when the DB presents its "something has been updated" indicators. The lack of granularity in location associations makes it worse. I wouldn't demand that it be "fixed" because I have no clue as to how or if that could be done. However, I do request an official comment on this that explains, if possible, why it is necessary for the system to behave in this way and gives a summary of what would be involved in changing it.
 

dave3825

* * * * * * * * * * * *
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 17, 2003
Messages
7,436
Location
Suffolk County NY
So the majority of us have to suffer for the benefit of the few that choose to listen to school buses in multiple states?

I think of it as the majority of you have to consider what you are getting for free. And no, I don't care if you are a subscriber. The website / database web interface are free to all. So for free, you have no right to complain. Sure, you all will. But you don't have any right to :)

Mike

So you are of the opinion that nothing should be done to improve the current function of the UI to the database?

Ok, so we know you don't care about school buses. Got it. But what makes you better or more special than the guy that loves listening to school buses? NOTHING. What makes him better than you? NOTHING. I myself will give up scanning when that's all there's left to listen to.

Everyone has their own taste and I do not believe there would be a way not to have a multi state/county system show green in one state and not another. Like I said, people who listen to multi state/county systems would like to know when there are changes, just as you would like to know when your towns freqs change. Im sure at times, your area may be green and what was changed is of no interest to some people. There are plenty of times I see New York green only to find an ambulance miles away, but in the same county, has changed.

What are you going to do? I started using web page change service to alert me when a page, that has info that I am interested in changes.
 

Tim

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
476
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
++ BEFORE THIS THREAD GETS OUT OF HAND ++++

Let's try for a possible DB solution...How about an area for multi-state TRS' like on each state's page? Something like the statewide TRS' listed on the bottom of each state's home page.

So for example, here is state of Wisconsin's 'Homepage' on RR.

Wisconsin Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference


As you can see on the bottom of the page, there is an area that lists "Areawide Trunking Systems in Wisconsin". Can't they just be placed down there for the update (Without tagging the counties?), Lindsay?

Tim
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
Ok, so we know you don't care about school buses. Got it. But what makes you better or more special than the guy that loves listening to school buses? NOTHING. What makes him better than you? NOTHING. I myself will give up scanning when that's all there's left to listen to.

Everyone has their own taste and I do not believe there would be a way not to have a multi state/county system show green in one state and not another. Like I said, people who listen to multi state/county systems would like to know when there are changes, just as you would like to know when your towns freqs change. Im sure at times, your area may be green and what was changed is of no interest to some people. There are plenty of times I see New York green only to find an ambulance miles away, but in the same county, has changed.

What are you going to do? I started using web page change service to alert me when a page, that has info that I am interested in changes.

WOW? I don't think I ever claimed to be better than anyone else. Everyone has right to listen to anything they choose. My question is about the DB organization. I live next to Camp Pendleton and like to see the changes to that system flagged as they currently are. But does Camp Pendleton really have to be linked to Quantico in the DB because they have the same System ID? The sites have a different name so could the system be split out by site names? I am not an expert on DB org and it might be impossible to split the systems. If so, I can accept that. I am just asking if there is a better way to do this.
 

blantonl

Founder and CEO
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
11,095
Location
San Antonio, Whitefish, New Orleans
One of the problems is that overall trunked systems are tied to states and counties, and sites are tied to states and counties, however talkgroup categories are not tied to a single location entity. We could theoretically only update specific counties if a site was changed, but not talkgroups.

For us to properly update timestamps by county, we would have to go and tie a talkgroup category to a county, or set of counties. It would be a pretty sizable administrative overhead for the admins to have to go back and retrofit that in addition to making sure that all talkgroup categories had their proper ongoing county assignments.
 

blantonl

Founder and CEO
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
11,095
Location
San Antonio, Whitefish, New Orleans
As you can see on the bottom of the page, there is an area that lists "Areawide Trunking Systems in Wisconsin". Can't they just be placed down there for the update (Without tagging the counties?), Lindsay?

Tim

It's a thought I can consider - but I suspect we'll tick off a set of folks that want to see those updates in their county.
 

W6KRU

Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2008
Messages
3,408
Location
Oceanside, CA
One of the problems is that overall trunked systems are tied to states and counties, and sites are tied to states and counties, however talkgroup categories are not tied to a single location entity. We could theoretically only update specific counties if a site was changed, but not talkgroups.

For us to properly update timestamps by county, we would have to go and tie a talkgroup category to a county, or set of counties. It would be a pretty sizable administrative overhead for the admins to have to go back and retrofit that in addition to making sure that all talkgroup categories had their proper ongoing county assignments.

Thank you Lindsay, I appreciate your response. I think I understand your explanation. It just didn't make sense to query the DB for all of the county systems and conventional freqs. in order to query the DB for the last 10 changes only to see that they were all a thousand miles away.
 

Tim

Member
Feed Provider
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
476
Location
Milwaukee, Wi
Thank you Lindsay, I appreciate your response. I think I understand your explanation. It just didn't make sense to query the DB for all of the county systems and conventional freqs. in order to query the DB for the last 10 changes only to see that they were all a thousand miles away.

AND it's only going to get worse once people get ahold of NXD/DMR updated scanners. I wasn't trying to start flame war or anything on here, but as a frequent visitor to this site it makes it hard to follow counties with actual changes.


It's a thought I can consider - but I suspect we'll tick off a set of folks that want to see those updates in their county.

I can definitely understand that. I am guessing no matter what you do you are gonna make someone ticked off (I am guessing there are still some that are mad that you switched from SE US TRS Page to RadioReference). I am guessing that there are more people who only want to be notified when their county info is updated versus these systems. I am basing this off of the fact that a majority of 'scanner listeners' do not listen to business band (Unlike Me), let alone NXD/DMR systems.

Tim
 

blantonl

Founder and CEO
Staff member
Super Moderator
Joined
Dec 9, 2000
Messages
11,095
Location
San Antonio, Whitefish, New Orleans
Actually, I'm going to eat a little crow here. We are tracking county assignments by talkgroup category, however we're not enforcing that just yet.

I might have some work to do so get this implemented, but we should have some solutions soon to help mitigate this annoyance for wide area systems.
 

wa8pyr

Technischer Guru
Staff member
Lead Database Admin
Joined
Sep 22, 2002
Messages
6,982
Location
Ohio
Actually, I'm going to eat a little crow here. We are tracking county assignments by talkgroup category, however we're not enforcing that just yet.

I might have some work to do so get this implemented, but we should have some solutions soon to help mitigate this annoyance for wide area systems.

However, a potential issue with this is large systems with statewide or systemwide (or at least regional) talkgroup categories. If any of those exist, it will still flag the entire system as updated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top