2016 F150 Auto Start/Stop and scanner rebooting

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

So I have my 536HP installed in my new 2016 F150 that does the auto start/stop at stoplights and such. The radio is wired into a relay that is powered off a dedicated power line and triggered by the vehicle's accessory wire. Radio is grounded to a chassis ground (with several other items). Everything works great, except when I lift my foot off the brake and the engine restarts (not by key, but by auto function), the scanner reboots.

I've tried adding 26700 microfarads of capacitance to the circuit, a diode to prevent backfeed into the vehicle circuit (and loss of capacitance), an inverter (DC Noise filter) to help prevent spikes and a 13V/5W zener diode to also help prevent spikes. Nothing I do seems to stop the issue. It seems to not reboot until after the engine has started, so I'm starting to wonder exactly what the issue is. I have a Uniden CB wired into the same circuit as the scanner and it does not fluctuate at all. Neither do any other electronics that I have added.

Does anybody have any ideas how to fix this? I'm at a total loss.

Thanks in advance,
Brandt

ofd8001 · Jun 9, 2016

The scanner is very sensitive to a voltage drop and it responds by re-booting.

Would there be some other circuit you could use to trigger your relay circuit? I'm not familiar with the later model Fords and their auto-shutdown feature - maybe there is a setting to turn that off?

There are several F150 forums, similar to this, where you can post questions. I've found lots of answers at this one: F150online Forums - Message Boards for 1997-2008 F150, Lightning, Supercrew, King Ranch, Blackwood, Mark LT Light Duty Pickup Trucks

They've even got a page for electrical stuff: Electrical Systems - F150online Forums

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

ofd8001 said:
The scanner is very sensitive to a voltage drop and it responds by re-booting.

Would there be some other circuit you could use to trigger your relay circuit? I'm not familiar with the later model Fords and their auto-shutdown feature - maybe there is a setting to turn that off?

There are several F150 forums, similar to this, where you can post questions. I've found lots of answers at this one: F150online Forums - Message Boards for 1997-2008 F150, Lightning, Supercrew, King Ranch, Blackwood, Mark LT Light Duty Pickup Trucks

They've even got a page for electrical stuff: Electrical Systems - F150online Forums

Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately that is the only circuit I could find that comes on with the key. I was trying to have the scanner come on with the truck and not have to turn it on manually.

I was thinking it was sensitive to voltage drops, hence using the capacitors. Any idea what the required voltage range is? It is strictly 12V? Do I simply need to up my capacitors?

Any ideas on what I can add to the circuit to help it is greatly appreciated.

I looked at the F150 forums - I'm actually a member of the one you quoted. I don't think this is a truck issue. I think this is specific to the scanner since all my other equipment works perfectly fine.

Thanks!

darunimal · Jun 9, 2016

I know it will work all the way to 10.5v (900ma) constant. Manual say 11v to 16.6v. What is the dimmer (orange) wire attached to.

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

Dimmer is attached to nothing.

Thanks for those numbers. If I'm calculating correctly, which I'm not sure I am, I should way more capacitance than I need to keep it in that range for the time it takes the engine to start. *scratches head*

dave3825 · Jun 9, 2016

You say you want the scanner to start automatically? That has the knob style on off, right? How do you shut it off?

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

Power input is controlled by the vehicle. When key turns off the power is removed and the scanner turns off.

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dave3825 · Jun 9, 2016

Is that how it works normally or is that how you have it hooked up? I have a 436 and its on off is different.

darunimal · Jun 9, 2016

Not really, depower it with no batteries on a KEY On accessory (dc port) via a USB power cable and the BCD436HP will do it the same way Dave, can you let the OP get assistance before we get off topic.

mmckenna · Jun 9, 2016

My dad had a Chevy that had the start/stop.
Wire the scanner power directly to the battery. If you must have ignition sensed power control, then use a 12 volt relay.

Never had an issue with this on his car, but it had two batteries, one for starting the engine and a small one in the trunk for supporting accessories.

Another more expensive choice would be one of these:
DC UPS & Power Control | 6 - 50 VDC | 10 - 200 Amps | Newmar | Powering the Network

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

Already using a relay - no difference. The two batteries might be what helped the chevy. I only have the single. The issue with what you linked, aside from cost, is that its essentially a battery. I want the scanner to turn off with the truck too, and I'm not sure those units would actually turn off the load rather than power it until the battery died. That startguard would be the best, but yea, close to $200!

Couldn't I achieve the same result with the right capacitor(s)? I only need it to cover 2-5 seconds. I would have thought 26700 microfarads would do the trick, but that doesn't seem to be working. And like I said, the scanner doesn't seem to die until just after the engine restarts.

HDMechanic · Jun 9, 2016

Here is my two cents on the issue. You may need to find another power source that is still keyed powered but does not shut off when the vehicle starts. I have lots of items in my vehicle that run off of key power. If you look in the fuse box their should be an empty spot that has power going to it but with no fuse. You may have to go to Ford to get the other conector for the fuse holder and wire it off of their. It might take a few tries but their should be a power source in their that is on the delayed time off like your truck radio that stays on for a few till you open the door. This is what I did in my 2012 Ford F150. The fuse box is easy to remove in the year of my truck but am not sure if it is still inbehind the side kick panel in the pass anger side. Hope this helps.

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

HDMechanic said:
Here is my two cents on the issue. You may need to find another power source that is still keyed powered but does not shut off when the vehicle starts. I have lots of items in my vehicle that run off of key power. If you look in the fuse box their should be an empty spot that has power going to it but with no fuse. You may have to go to Ford to get the other conector for the fuse holder and wire it off of their. It might take a few tries but their should be a power source in their that is on the delayed time off like your truck radio that stays on for a few till you open the door. This is what I did in my 2012 Ford F150. The fuse box is easy to remove in the year of my truck but am not sure if it is still inbehind the side kick panel in the pass anger side. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the advice. However, the keyed source I'm choosing doesn't actually turn off during engine start. I have 3 other devices running off this same source and they stay live while the scanner does not.

Jay911 · Jun 9, 2016

I think the scanner is just more sensitive to voltage and/or current drop. Are you able to measure that line while the truck is cranking at the end of the anti-idle cycle, and see what you're getting in terms of voltage and amperage?

My setup is admittedly far less advanced than yours - I have a 436, connected to a 2x2.1A USB cigar lighter adapter plugged into the socket inside the center console of my '13 Raptor. A year or so ago, with a different adapter, every time I cranked the truck, either myself or by remote start (it doesn't have anti-idle), the radio would either fully power cycle if the batteries were low, or repeat the "Hit . for serial, E for mass storage" notification if not. Since I changed to this 2.1A adapter, the radio does not seem to detect the power drop during cranking.

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

Jay911 said:
I think the scanner is just more sensitive to voltage and/or current drop. Are you able to measure that line while the truck is cranking at the end of the anti-idle cycle, and see what you're getting in terms of voltage and amperage?

My setup is admittedly far less advanced than yours - I have a 436, connected to a 2x2.1A USB cigar lighter adapter plugged into the socket inside the center console of my '13 Raptor. A year or so ago, with a different adapter, every time I cranked the truck, either myself or by remote start (it doesn't have anti-idle), the radio would either fully power cycle if the batteries were low, or repeat the "Hit . for serial, E for mass storage" notification if not. Since I changed to this 2.1A adapter, the radio does not seem to detect the power drop during cranking.

I can try measuring. I'll have to find a helper since I can't drive and measure at the same time. lol.

I've got this grounded (along with the rest of my equipment) to a seat bracket bolt on the back wall of the cab. Do you think a bad ground could cause this? Would a ground direct to the battery be any better? Its aluminum chassis, btw.

mmckenna · Jun 9, 2016

I think you are chasing your tail on this one.

Your scanner needs a sufficient supply of clean power. The place to get that is at the battery. Nowhere else. Commercial radio installers would never tap into existing wiring for anything other than an ignition sense circuit to drive a relay or a chargeguard type device.

Here it is, plain and simple: Your radio requires clean power. The only place to get that is the battery.

Get it? Anything else you try to do is going to be a waste of money. By installing a bunch of capacitors all you are doing is installing another battery.

Your radio power feed needs to go to the battery. Use your ignition sense circuit to drive the relay ONLY.

As for the Newmar products, yeah, they are expensive. They will do exactly what you want if you put your ignition sense relay between the radio and the power conditioner.
It's much easier and cheaper to just wire it right in the first place. If you search the boards about powering radios the recurring theme you will see is that the only right way to do it is From. The. Battery. Anything else is going to give you issues, as you've experienced.

chief21 · Jun 9, 2016

+1 for wiring direct to the battery.

You could easily do a temporary hook-up, just to confirm that it would solve the problem. If it works, then hide the cables, fuse the circuit appropriately, and make it all pretty.

Good luck!

John AC4JK

mavrickma · Jun 9, 2016

chief21 said:
+1 for wiring direct to the battery.

You could easily do a temporary hook-up, just to confirm that it would solve the problem. If it works, then hide the cables, fuse the circuit appropriately, and make it all pretty.

Good luck!

John AC4JK

I tried that tonight. No luck.

To be clear - I "tested" postive to a fuse block that I have mounted in the rear of the cab that is fed by a 4awg cable run direct to the battery. The scanner was fused at 10A. The negative was grounded to a chassis ground in the rear of the cab.

Also, to be clear, my original wiring was a 12V 40A relay powered off the auxiliary fuse block mentioned above and TRIGGERED by the ignition controlled circuit. The actual power for the scanner was coming from the dedicated fuse block that goes direct to the battery.

I understand what you're saying, but i've tried all three options: Direct to the battery, triggered by a relay, and direct to the ignition controlled circuit. ALL show the same issue

KevinC · Jun 9, 2016

I may have missed this question, but does it act this way when you start the truck with the key?

ETA...

The reason I ask is because auto start/stop isn't the same as using the key, so your problem may not be low voltage. It could be a "noisy" voltage or even high voltage.

mmckenna · Jun 9, 2016

OK, that's helpful.

I understand this is a new truck. However, it's not uncommon to get a bad battery. I've had it happen on a brand new car. Get the dealer to check it out. If it's weak, it'll do this.

Another good idea would be to go through and check all the connections. Pay close attention to where you are picking up your ground. Make sure it's making good contact with bare metal.
Check your battery post connections. Corrosion, oxidation, battery connection sealers, etc. can cause issues. There should also be a heavy cable running from the negative terminal, through a current flow sensor and to the vehicle body. Make sure both sides of that are clean, tight and making a good connection. A quick hit with a wire brush should clean up the connections. Even if they look clean, clean them again.

With a #4 coming directly off the battery you should be OK. It really sounds like either the battery is faulty or there is a bad connection somewhere. Adding big enough capacitors might help, but all you are doing is hiding the issue, not really fixing it.

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