Norwich Police Reception Questioned

I live in Norwich, Ct and over the last few decades, monitoring the Norwich Police Dept has been my steady diet. But lately I've noticed something has drastically changed. Their reception on my two home scanners has taken a significant downturn. I've noticed this over the past several months, as well as many of my local friends.

So here are the facts that I would like to present. The main channel of the Norwich Police is 39.90 mhz. I live right here and my home is about 300 feet above sea level. It is the perfect spot in this city for any scanner hobbyist. I should have no trouble monitoring the local police on low band.

It should also be known that I also monitor the local volunteer fire departments on 33.66 MHz with no problem at all. They come in loud and clear. As well as the career Norwich Fire Dept on 154.205 mhz.

Operating off of my roof mounted outside high/low band antenna are two scanners which I leave on 24 hours a day tuned to these local stations. However, lately despite my outside antenna, I have noticed that the Norwich Police seems to be coming in very scratchy and barely readable. As if they were 20 miles or farther away. Yet no change in the reception of the other local channels.

I recently tried an experiment to see how it would work if I were to use my indoor telescoping antenna that came with the radio. I disconnected my outdoor antenna from my radio on the second floor, and plugged in this telescoping antenna directly to the back of one scanner. After several hours of use, NOTHING at all heard on that Norwich Police Channel. However, just as in the past, loud and clear for those other channels.

I could also hear the Norwich Police coming in very scratchy, the same as it's been on my first floor radio using that outside antenna. So I know there was chatter, although very poor reception.

Something seems to be going on with their radio system. It wasn't always this way. Anybody notice this as well ? Any ideas ?

Part of an ongoing, ongoing problem.

Norwich P.D

I have the same problem a mile away with a antenna on the house. Once in a while they switch
antennas or increase power. Then I hear them perfect with 5 bars on the radio. For the power there
licensed for 100-110 watts we should hear them in the next state.

This issue has been going on for longer than a few months.

sefrischling said:

This issue has been going on for longer than a few months.

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Thank you Sir. Actually I guess I owe everybody an apology for not being more accurate on my timing in saying "over the last few months". It was not my intention to try and mislead the members here. I ask them to consider my sincere apologies.

So now the question is "What sir, do you contribute this problem to be and how can they correct it" ? It can't be those old Low Band radio systems, because as I stated earlier here, "I am able to clearly hear the local volunteer fire department on 33.66 MHz".

What should the Norwich Police Dept do to correct this problem. Currently I know the city just doesn't have the extra money coming in to buy a brand new radio system. What would you suggest ?

The Norwich PD chief had sought a 700/800 mhz P25 trunked system for the city, despite studies showing VHF was a more viable solution for the department based on terrain and budget. He wanted a system that would not have allowed for inter-op with CSP or NL/Wtfd. It would also require the vollies to remain on low-band for paging, while changing over to trunked radios (like Waterford) .

I would bet they have been deferring maintenance on the system thinking that they would get a new system. Could be any part of the system, from the tip of the antenna to the microphone. Doesn't stop getting older because the city needs money. It is a matter of priorities. There is always something that can be postponed. If you look at the town budget, I see a $100,000 playscape. There is some capital money that could have been spent on radios.

chris

Norwich P.D

Sometimes I hear it great, Other times not for days. Thank you both for your answers.
Wonder about federal funds for a new radio system. Looks like only two antennas on
the f.c.c license.

I would also like to thank you both, "sef......" and "eg".

I was not aware of the plans to go to a trunked system. But as "eg" says, the lack of repairs may be for a reason.

I appreciate the fact that "sef...." Had mentioned how the high band was best suited for the area. The proof in that is with the Norwich (career) Fire Dept. I believe that system has been in place for about 25 years now. I can never remember any serious malfunctions or unheard messages.

As a former member of that dept I used that radio system for about 15 years. I can honestly say I never once had any problems with it. There was a fireground channel (channel 2) that allowed us to talk without going through the repeater. I believe it is called "talk around channel". It was perfect for communications among the members both at an incident and for hands on training purposes. It would allow us to talk between each other without dispatch hearing anything, so as not to interfere with their operation. Today I understand there is another fireground channel as well.

If only the Norwich Police would have followed that recommendation. It would still be functioning perfectly well today.

Spending money on pipe dream projects and playgrounds are nothing new. The police officers in the street need a reliable system that they, and us as well, can depend on. I think that high band recommendations would have easily served that purpose.

From The Day today

The Day - Outdated Norwich police radio system continues to frustrate police, residents - News from southeastern Connecticut

sefrischling said:

From The Day today

The Day - Outdated Norwich police radio system continues to frustrate police, residents - News from southeastern Connecticut

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Thank you "sefridchling" for posting that newspaper story. June 12th, this issue was first mentioned here. I had no idea of this article coming out. It is a story of a city that has been willing to put its police officers at unnecessary risk, apparently as reported here, for a long time.

The citizens of this city have been put at risk as well. The city's previous leaders and administrators should be held liable should any officer or citizen be injured because of this poorly operating radio system. What about the families of these police officers who are out there. They have to live this nightmare every time their loved one go to work.

Any city that does not put it's police officers and their much needed, reliable radio system as a high priority goes against the most important needs of it's citizens. And of course its police officers as well.

When I compare the radio systems of the Norwich Fire Department on the high band with a repeater system, to this long outdated police radio system it should have been disposed of years

The Norwich PD has 800 MHz analog I-Tac radios in their cars so they can communicate with the CSP and have interop communications. They don't need to spend a large amount of money to be on a digital system like they (CSP)have. There are many satellite receivers (as in local land based not to be confused with sky satellites) that are set up that were supposed to cover dead spots. Using the existing infrastructure and upgrading to a radio frequency band less prone to noise with a fixed repeater so cars and portables can be heard transmitted over the base station, ie: City Fire Department , (thank you Mr. Anti-digital) would be within reach fiscally.


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imonitorit said:

The Norwich PD has 800 MHz analog I-Tac radios in their cars so they can communicate with the CSP and have interop communications.

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Not all cars and it is not the P25 trunked system to communicate with CSP , it is 52 CSPERN, which is almost never used by anyone in the state. This does not allow them to communicate while out of the cruiser, or with dispatch ... theirs or CSP. Norwich Dispatch still uses the common lowband Hotline, like every other PD.

I did specify analog which is for the Itac, Icall & cspern. There was talk of looking at a "cadillac" digital system so they would be able to talk to the CSP. I was pointing out there is a way to communicate with them now without spending a fortune. Just trying to help find a fix that isn't too complex that the upper management in the city can understand.


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imonitorit said:

I did specify analog which is for the Itac, Icall & cspern. There was talk of looking at a "cadillac" digital system so they would be able to talk to the CSP. I was pointing out there is a way to communicate with them now without spending a fortune. Just trying to help find a fix that isn't too complex that the upper management in the city can understand.


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"imonitorit", I appreciate your comment as well. I for one really lacks the technology skills to tell the story as you have. Based on your report, there is a way for that Police Dept to make the proper adjustments to their old, outdated radio system without spending huge sums of money. A very important radio system that every police officer as well as any citizen, or employee, or visitor to this city needs to have.

Recently, just reported, after 48 years of service with the Norwich Police Dept, the current Police Chief will be retiring next month in early July. The next Police Chief will inherit this very serious radio issue, with no money available for an entirely new radio system. Yet that new chief will assume all responsibility for any serious incidents occurring as a result of this problem. I also believe the new budget starting July 1st has already been established. Cutbacks throughout the city and I'm sure not set as side for an entirely new radio system.

I worry for the safety of those Norwich Police Officers and the citizens as well. But this is what happens when a city tries spend money on special interest groups instead of giving the people assigned to protect them the highest priorities when it comes to protecting them.

As a retired firefighter, I could not give an estimate on the amount of money spent trying to run six totally, separately run fire districts for a city of about 40,000 people. Fire apparatus alone, millions of dollars.

Yes, I am getting involved in local politics. But I am also trying to make a point on just why a high priority radio system has not been repaired or dealt with. Thanks for listening and hopefully it won't happen to you

There is apparently more to this story. As others have mentioned, this apparently has been going on for a long time according to an article in a story by "The Patch", which I just learned of today.

If you go to Patch.com, you should be able to check this out. As far as I know, totally unrelated to this thread and I have no idea who wrote this.

I had someone point out to me that the town of Montville is on VHF-hi repeater system for both Police & Fire. If someone was smart, I'll bet some equipment that is still in good shape can be found in Rhode Island since many departments switched over to the 800 MHz digital statewide radios.


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imonitorit said:

I had someone point out to me that the town of Montville is on VHF-hi repeater system for both Police & Fire. If someone was smart, I'll bet some equipment that is still in good shape can be found in Rhode Island since many departments switched over to the 800 MHz digital statewide radios.


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Interesting point. Montville, can be heard loud and clear on their high band system at my home and I don't really know of many problems they've had with it.

When you mention those Rhode Island departments and most of them, based on what I hear also continue to operate on their former high band radios as well. All except for Providence.

Those RI fire depts that I can pick up some 40-50 miles away, including mobile units because of a repeater system are:
1) Warwick FD - 154.31
2) West Warwick FD - 154.43
3) Cranston FD - 154.01
5) Johnston FD - 154.175
6) North Providence FD - 154.25

It amazes me that I can recieve these departments much farther away, while having problems picking up the Norwich Police within the same town.

New London of course not since going to their digital system.

Montville is a very good example of what the Norwich Police should have done a long time ago

MrAntiDigital said:

Interesting point. Montville, can be heard loud and clear on their high band system at my home and I don't really know of many problems they've had with it.



When you mention those Rhode Island departments and most of them, based on what I hear also continue to operate on their former high band radios as well. All except for Providence.



Those RI fire depts that I can pick up some 40-50 miles away, including mobile units because of a repeater system are:

1) Warwick FD - 154.31

2) West Warwick FD - 154.43

3) Cranston FD - 154.01

5) Johnston FD - 154.175

6) North Providence FD - 154.25



It amazes me that I can recieve these departments much farther away, while having problems picking up the Norwich Police within the same town.



New London of course not since going to their digital system.



Montville is a very good example of what the Norwich Police should have done a long time ago

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I agree with you. I don't know why some R.I. departments simulcast, but at least it gives us something to monitor if something big happens that way. I remember the reason R.I. went to all 800MHz was because of The Station Nightclub fire. Hopefully, Norwich won't wait until a cop or civilian is killed and the poor radio system was found to be a contributing factor. The have been lucky so far for too long.


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I do want to mention this about communications during that very serious Station Fire which killed 100(?) innocent victims.

At that time, ALL the surrounding departments that responded really had no problem with communication as far as I know.

The Fire Departments already had what was called an "Intercity Radio Channel". It was 154.28 MHz. Each dispatch center as well as each piece of apparatus, and I believe all portable radios were equipped with that channel. It was used very often for mutual aid Fire Department Ambulances ( called Rescues ), as well as relocating fire companies to an incident or fire station coverage. Basically as I saw it, it was a Perfect System, familiar and used by all.

Same for the Police Departments. Each one had Intercity Police Channel on 158.97 MHz. Again, well used and functioned well.

Fire Departments had complete communications between each other. As well as Police departments. If a major incident occurred, simply putting a fire commander and a police commander operating at the command post took care on any interoperability issues.

As far as I know, that system worked.