General Newbie Questions

tomorrowtoday · Jun 25, 2016

Hi everyone, I'm not new to radios, but I am new to the ham/amateur stuff, so I apologize if these seem like novice questions. Long story short, my wife and I do a bit of traveling and often end up taking both of our cars. So my main goal is to be able to communicate with her both when we are driving as well as when we are touring around on foot so I have been looking at getting our Technician licenses. My questions are:

1. I currently own a couple of Motorola HT1250 and Motorola CDM 1250 radios that I would like to use. While these are more business/public safety radios than amateur radios, they operate in the UHF 403-470 MHz range...so I assume I can just program it in the 420-450 MHz amateur band and I would legally be able to transmit up to the 40 watts the CDM 1250 is capable of...Is that correct?

2. As I'm sure you know, the Motorola HT 1250 and CDM 1250 are more police/business radio than amateur radio...so if a police officer were to see it in our car or saw us walking around town with it...as long as we are only transmitting on the 420-450 band, then we are 100% legal to have and use them, correct? Or is there some kind of loophole the cops/FCC could cite us for?

3. I know the regulations basically say that you have to identify your call sign every 10 minutes you are transmitting. Like I mentioned, I'm only looking to talk with my wife on an open frequency (and we live in a rural area so there shouldn't be a problem finding a frequency not being used)...We're not looking to talk with people across the world or broadcast a radio station or anything...Do we still need to use our call sign every time we transmit (or every time we transmit if it has been at least 10 minutes since the last time we identified)? Or is there some kind of exception if you are only communicating between yourselves?

Sorry if these seem like basic questions, but thanks in advance!

n4yek · Jun 26, 2016

tomorrowtoday said:
1. I currently own a couple of Motorola HT1250 and Motorola CDM 1250 radios that I would like to use. While these are more business/public safety radios than amateur radios, they operate in the UHF 403-470 MHz range...so I assume I can just program it in the 420-450 MHz amateur band and I would legally be able to transmit up to the 40 watts the CDM 1250 is capable of...Is that correct?

Yes, but you are supposed to only use what power is needed to communicate.
There is no need to use 40 watts if the two cars are only 100 feet apart.

tomorrowtoday said:
2. As I'm sure you know, the Motorola HT 1250 and CDM 1250 are more police/business radio than amateur radio...so if a police officer were to see it in our car or saw us walking around town with it...as long as we are only transmitting on the 420-450 band, then we are 100% legal to have and use them, correct? Or is there some kind of loophole the cops/FCC could cite us for?

You are legal and ok to use it in the amateur radio bands.
There are a lot of Motorola radios in use by hams these days.

tomorrowtoday said:
3. I know the regulations basically say that you have to identify your call sign every 10 minutes you are transmitting. Like I mentioned, I'm only looking to talk with my wife on an open frequency (and we live in a rural area so there shouldn't be a problem finding a frequency not being used)...We're not looking to talk with people across the world or broadcast a radio station or anything...Do we still need to use our call sign every time we transmit (or every time we transmit if it has been at least 10 minutes since the last time we identified)? Or is there some kind of exception if you are only communicating between yourselves?

There is no exception, you must always identify yourself with your callsign every 10 minutes and when you sign off.
.
.

N2AL · Jun 26, 2016

tomorrowtoday said:
2. As I'm sure you know, the Motorola HT 1250 and CDM 1250 are more police/business radio than amateur radio...so if a police officer were to see it in our car or saw us walking around town with it...as long as we are only transmitting on the 420-450 band, then we are 100% legal to have and use them, correct? Or is there some kind of loophole the cops/FCC could cite us for?

As someone who has spent nearly a decade in the law enforcement field, I can say that I have never heard of police stopping someone solely over the type radio they were using. Obviously each state is different, but unless someone just draws suspicion to themselves, you should be in the clear. Nothing about your purpose of Motorola radios which you stated is illegal. I keep a Kenwood commercial (public safety) portable radio with me all the time, secured on the exterior of my 5.11 sling pack, and have never had any issues.

As a disclaimer I will advise, however severely unlikely, should you be contacted by law enforcement about your use of a Motorola radio, just explain its use, and you should be good to go. There are more amateur radio operators who work in law enforcement then you might expect. Our hobby is a great one, and pools operators from all types of career fields.

Andrew | N2AL
www.n4awl.com

N4GIX · Jun 26, 2016

In any event, I strongly advise every amateur to carry a wallet-sized, laminated copy of their FCC license on their person at all times. Doing so will absolutely remove any ambiguity about their possession and use of any radio programmed for amateur frequencies.

jim202 · Jun 26, 2016

Law enforcement have no justifiable probable cause to stop you to inquire why your using any radio. Only an FCC field agent can do that.

As a suggestion, there are a number of simplex set aside frequencies in all of the VHF and UHF ham bands. I would not choose to use the calling simplex frequencies, but one of the other simplex frequencies that are set aside.

The use of a 40 watt radio for use between different vehicles is not out of the question. You never know how far apart you might get separated. I have used radios in our different vehicles like this with my wife when we are on the road. It sure helps when coming up to an exit on the interstate to make sure we both take the same road. There was one time going through Atlanta on the east side that we go separated. Even the 50 watts we were using for output power wouldn't keep us in touch when she took the wrong exit. She ended up in the airport and I was pulled over on the side of the highway trying to contact her.

As far as it goes on identifying by using your call sign, yes you still need to abide by the time interval as per the rules and regulations that cover ham radio operation. You don't have to identify on every transmission, but need to do it on at least a 10 minute interval.

Have fun traveling and operate safely. When traffic gets heavy, it might be a good time to limit your use of the radios.

tomorrowtoday · Jun 26, 2016

Wow, thanks for the quick replies, they have certainly been enlightening. Great, I am glad to hear I'm not alone in using a 'public safety/business' radio on the amateur bands. I wasn't as worried about being stopped just for it, but more like if I was pulled over or was walking through town with a radio and the officer is like 'Hey, that's the exact same radio we use!', I just wanted to make sure it was 100% legal.

So a few follow-up questions, if I may:

1. To clarify on the 10 minute call-sign requirement, we would only have to say the call-sign every 10 minutes IF we actually transmit during that time, correct? So, for example, if we were doing a long drive and didn't transmit for, say 30 minutes, we don't actually have to transmit just to give our call-sign every 10 minutes, just that the next time we do transmit 30 minutes later, we would then have to say it then, correct?

2.

jim202 said:
As a suggestion, there are a number of simplex set aside frequencies in all of the VHF and UHF ham bands. I would not choose to use the calling simplex frequencies, but one of the other simplex frequencies that are set aside.

Just to clarify, when you say set-aside frequencies, I assume you mean like common frequencies to get in touch with others...kind of like in the CB radio days, where everyone went to channel 19 to get in touch and than turned to another channel? Basically I can use any open frequency in the 420-450 MHz range, but should stay away from these 'common' frequencies, I assume is what you mean?

3. Hypothetically, since these radios are capable of being programmed for the business/public safety bands..I assume it would be legal to use them to listen to police/businesses in the same way someone with a scanner listens in...so long as we only transmit on the amateur bands? Or would the be crossing a line?

k6cpo · Jun 26, 2016

tomorrowtoday said:
Hi everyone, I'm not new to radios, but I am new to the ham/amateur stuff, so I apologize if these seem like novice questions. Long story short, my wife and I do a bit of traveling and often end up taking both of our cars. So my main goal is to be able to communicate with her both when we are driving as well as when we are touring around on foot so I have been looking at getting our Technician licenses. My questions are:

1. I currently own a couple of Motorola HT1250 and Motorola CDM 1250 radios that I would like to use. While these are more business/public safety radios than amateur radios, they operate in the UHF 403-470 MHz range...so I assume I can just program it in the 420-450 MHz amateur band and I would legally be able to transmit up to the 40 watts the CDM 1250 is capable of...Is that correct?

2. As I'm sure you know, the Motorola HT 1250 and CDM 1250 are more police/business radio than amateur radio...so if a police officer were to see it in our car or saw us walking around town with it...as long as we are only transmitting on the 420-450 band, then we are 100% legal to have and use them, correct? Or is there some kind of loophole the cops/FCC could cite us for?

3. I know the regulations basically say that you have to identify your call sign every 10 minutes you are transmitting. Like I mentioned, I'm only looking to talk with my wife on an open frequency (and we live in a rural area so there shouldn't be a problem finding a frequency not being used)...We're not looking to talk with people across the world or broadcast a radio station or anything...Do we still need to use our call sign every time we transmit (or every time we transmit if it has been at least 10 minutes since the last time we identified)? Or is there some kind of exception if you are only communicating between yourselves?

Sorry if these seem like basic questions, but thanks in advance!

Others have adequately answered your questions, but I would like to add to number 3 that in order communicate with a member of your family on the amateur bands, then that member will also have to have a license with their own call sign.

N4GIX · Jun 26, 2016

k6cpo said:
Others have adequately answered your questions, but I would like to add to number 3 that in order communicate with a member of your family on the amateur bands, then that member will also have to have a license with their own call sign.

Good reminder, but I do believe he made it clear he and his wife are planning to get their Tech licenses... :wink:

ko6jw_2 · Jun 26, 2016

Please adhere to the band plan. The 420-440 portion of the band is not for two-way communications. Stick to 440-450 and choose the simplex channels.

We had a group of hang glider enthusiasts who were licensed, but chose to use the lower end of 2 meters which is reserved for weak signal and SSB calling for their purposes. Not cool. They were politely asked to move and they did.

Also, we use the 70CM band as secondary users. Government services have priority. Not usually a problem, but certain restrictions have been imposed by the Air Force in the San Francisco area which limit repeaters to very low ERP. I know some hams that have installed GMRS repeaters to avoid these limitations.

There are some good reasons not to use commercial radios for ham purposes. Programming is not as easy and some features like reverse and simplex are not easy to apply on the fly. It's the difference between radios that the user should not mess with and ones where they should.

majoco · Jun 26, 2016

I'm still trying to think of a time when I spoke to my wife for ten minutes...... :roll:

toastycookies · Jun 26, 2016

ko6jw_2 said:
Please adhere to the band plan. The 420-440 portion of the band is not for two-way communications. Stick to 440-450 and choose the simplex channels.

You may want to go re read the band plan considering the 420-440 portion of the band is definitely for two-way communications.

432.100 is the calling freq for ssb/cw.

The only "not for two-way communications" frequencies (setup by the ARRL) for this band are the propagation beacons from 432.30-432.40 mhz.

I guess maybe you counted the part of the band reserved for repeater links (433.00-435.00) , but even those are technically two-way communications...

Anyways, might want to take a quick look at the band plan.

n4yek · Jun 27, 2016

tomorrowtoday said:
1. To clarify on the 10 minute call-sign requirement, we would only have to say the call-sign every 10 minutes IF we actually transmit during that time, correct? So, for example, if we were doing a long drive and didn't transmit for, say 30 minutes, we don't actually have to transmit just to give our call-sign every 10 minutes, just that the next time we do transmit 30 minutes later, we would then have to say it then, correct?

You are correct, but if you are done talking and you think you are not going to chat for a bit, it would be best to say your callsign at the end of your transmission to cover your butt.

If you talked to your wife for 25 minutes on the radio, you would have to identify 3 times: at 10 minutes, at 20 minutes, and at 25 when you stop talking and clear the frequency.
If you talked to her for only 3 minutes, you would identify when you stopped talking to her and cleared the frequency.
If you talked to her for 3 minutes,stopped and identified yourself and there was a 5 minutes gap and you started again, then you might want to consider that a new conversation and start your 10 minute identification sequence all over.
Never be ashamed to say your callsign, you worked hard to get it.

If you think identifying yourself is dumb, get two FRS radios and don't worry about it.

majoco said:
I'm still trying to think of a time when I spoke to my wife for ten minutes......

funny :lol:

sloop · Jun 27, 2016

tomorrowtoday, it seems that all of your questions have been answered but one. I have a 50 watt, 16 channel Motorola GM300 in my truck. 14 of the channels are amateur and the last two are for local fire and ems. When programming the radio you can program those public service frequencies to receive only (at least on my radio). It is ok to program public service frequencies as long as you don't transmit.

ShawnInPaso · Jun 28, 2016

majoco said:
I'm still trying to think of a time when I spoke to my wife for ten minutes...... :roll:

LOL - made the visit to this thread worh the 2 minutes. :lol:

jim202 · Jun 28, 2016

Let me inject some information here. If you go do a search for "NESMC", you will find a very fine band plan chart for most of the low VHF, VHF and UHF ham frequencies. In all the information floating around on the Internet, this one site has the best of all the charts I have run across. The simplex frequencies for the UHF ham band are not spelled out, but the rest of the information there is great.

You might want to do a search for the UHF ham band simplex operation and see if you can locate something that spells out the exact frequencies better though.

N4GIX · Jun 28, 2016

Note that the information on 440 is peculiar to the Northeast area due to the PAVE/PAWS in use. Those restrictions are not applicable to the vast majority of the U.S.

tomorrowtoday · Jun 28, 2016

Okay great! Thanks everyone for all of your answers. I'm definitely going to look into studying for the test.

a417 · Jul 14, 2016

N4GIX said:
In any event, I strongly advise every amateur to carry a wallet-sized, laminated copy of their FCC license on their person at all times. Doing so will absolutely remove any ambiguity about their possession and use of any radio programmed for amateur frequencies.

Helps in NY State, should you get stopped with a transciever / scanner in your car.:roll:

Token · Jul 14, 2016

N4GIX said:
Note that the information on 440 is peculiar to the Northeast area due to the PAVE/PAWS in use. Those restrictions are not applicable to the vast majority of the U.S.

Not sure which info on 440 you mean. The only one I see on limitations on 440 above says that hams are secondary on the band, and that is true everyplace in the US. The Northeast is not the only area with active limitations, remember the area, and number of repeaters, affected by the PAVE PAWS in California is larger than the one in the Northeast. California and Texas also have large areas with potentially limited operations.

Additionally, gov or mil comms can use the band anytime in any part of the US, and hams must not interfere with them and hams must accept interference from them. Around various test ranges in the US, in Nevada, California, Alaska, Texas, Alabama, Florida, and Georgia, it is not unheard of for odd signals to pop up in this band with regularity.

Also remember that the E-2 Hawkeye radar operates in this band, and might appear anywhere, but is most likely to be seen on any US sea coast.

T!

General Newbie Questions

tomorrowtoday

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n4yek

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N2AL

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N4GIX

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jim202

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tomorrowtoday

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k6cpo

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N4GIX

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ko6jw_2

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majoco

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toastycookies

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n4yek

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tomorrowtoday

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a417

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Token

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