Police Communication Problems During Officer's Shooting Prompt Investigation

N2AL · Jun 28, 2016

I read this article online a few days ago. It surely sounds like they are having some issues with their radio communications. I am thankful the officer who was shot will survive. We have lost too many police officers this year alone.

I did have to play the video back to see the type of radio the Chief was using -a BaoFeng. I know many amateur radio operators who have used them for the hobby, myself included, and they work okay for that purpose. It is my personal choice, but I will not trust my safety and my life to a BaoFeng radio.

Police Communication Problems During Officer's Shooting Prompt Investigation | NBC 10 Philadelphia

By Morgan Zalot and Cydney Long

An investigation into problems with police radio is underway in Delaware County after emergency communications ran into issues in the crucial moments after Folcroft Police Officer Chris Dorman was shot by a drug suspect on Friday.

Read more: Police Communication Problems During Officer's Shooting Prompt Investigation | NBC 10 Philadelphia
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Andrew | N2AL
N2AL | Amateur Extra Class Operator – November Two Alpha Lima

N4GIX · Jun 28, 2016

While I don't disagree with your comments regarding trusting your life to a CCR, I would point out that the BaoFeng the Chief displayed is a "professional" quality radio, and not the truly awful ones that are flooding the market for sub-thirty dollars.

I wonder if their computers are running Win10? If so that may well be why they are having problems! In any case, it sounds on the surface as though their entire communications system was "built on the cheap..."

N2AL · Jun 28, 2016

N4GIX said:
While I don't disagree with your comments regarding trusting your life to a CCR, I would point out that the BaoFeng the Chief displayed is a "professional" quality radio, and not the truly awful ones that are flooding the market for sub-thirty dollars.

You are absolutely correct, it is a professional radio. I just feel terribly uncomfortable using a BaoFeng for work purposes. I understand every radio manufacture has issues from time-to-time with their products, but in my opinion the radios I have used, Kenwood and Motorola, seem to be better quality and sustainability than a BeoFeng. I respect each individual user's choice on what radio to use.

I wonder what the situation is that causes the RF interference a lot of the time with their system. While I may be incorrect, I would not think television interference or ducting would cause all the problems they have experienced.

Andrew | N2AL
N2AL | Amateur Extra Class Operator – November Two Alpha Lima

KD8DVR · Jun 28, 2016

Those "professional quality" Baofengs are the same boards in different cases, with a couple firmware fixes.

Sent from my LG-D631 using Tapatalk

saber2k5 · Jun 28, 2016

Being that Delaware County is on T band, the DTV ducting is exactly what is causing the problem.

nd5y · Jun 28, 2016

N2AL said:
I wonder what the situation is that causes the RF interference a lot of the time with their system. While I may be incorrect, I would not think television interference or ducting would cause all the problems they have experienced.

It looks like Delaware Co PA uses the UHF-T band.
Delaware County, Pennsylvania (PA) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference
They could get very easily have interference from TV stations when ducting is occuring.

darunimal · Jun 28, 2016

Ask Lancaster County Pa what ducting from DC area Digital Television has caused!

bharvey2 · Jun 28, 2016

N4GIX said:
While I don't disagree with your comments regarding trusting your life to a CCR, I would point out that the BaoFeng the Chief displayed is a "professional" quality radio, and not the truly awful ones that are flooding the market for sub-thirty dollars.

I wonder if their computers are running Win10? If so that may well be why they are having problems! In any case, it sounds on the surface as though their entire communications system was "built on the cheap..."

The Baofeng radio that the Chief was holding looks just like one of the Baofeng UV82 radios that I own. While I've never had any problems with them, I wouldn't put them in the same class as a Moto or Kenwood. I paid about $30 or so each for mine. I've used mine to listen to the last of the analog police dispatch channels in my area and it works fine. Always clear. I don't think I'd want to rely on it if I were in public service though.

N2AL · Jun 28, 2016

nd5y said:
It looks like Delaware Co PA uses the UHF-T band.

Delaware County, Pennsylvania (PA) Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

They could get very easily have interference from TV stations when ducting is occuring.

That makes perfect sense. I did not even think they would use a frequency spectrum that high -it's not what I am used to in Tennessee. Thanks for the solid information!

Andrew | N2AL
N2AL | Amateur Extra Class Operator - November Two Alpha Lima

N2AL · Jun 28, 2016

bharvey2 said:
The Baofeng radio that the Chief was holding looks just like one of the Baofeng UV82 radios that I own. While I've never had any problems with them, I wouldn't put them in the same class as a Moto or Kenwood. I paid about $30 or so each for mine. I've used mine to listen to the last of the analog police dispatch channels in my area and it works fine. Always clear. I don't think I'd want to rely on it if I were in public service though.

I understand. I do not know enough about the BaoFeng's to ID what model number they are. I just know it's a BaoFeng because it's on the faceplate ha ha. I would not trust my security to a BaoFeng. Kenwood, Motorola, Harris, etc., their equipment has been proven to stand up to the test of public safety use.

Andrew | N2AL
N2AL | Amateur Extra Class Operator - November Two Alpha Lima

iMONITOR · Jun 28, 2016

Are those even FCC type accepted for Public Safety use?

bharvey2 · Jun 28, 2016

Some of the UV82 models are certified for Part 90. Like many radios are certification these days, YMMV.

N4GIX · Jun 28, 2016

iMONITOR said:
Are those even FCC type accepted for Public Safety use?

Yes, unfortunately. I did find it curious that the video showed the BaoFeng, then switched to a Motorola (APX?), then later showed the BaoFeng again.

gewecke · Jun 28, 2016

Sad ... No Leo or any public safety responder should EVER have to use a POS chinacom piece of crap for safety of life comms, nor should they be allowed to.

73, n9zas

darunimal · Jun 28, 2016

Btw the Officers radio worked and it worked to fellow officers, just not to the dispatch centers radio console since the computer was down or in the process of rebooting.

And it doesn't matter which radio you are using whether it's a $3 radio or a $28000 radio, ducting can and will still occur at sunrise and sunset everyday...... Whether you trust your life with x,y, or z radio is totally subjective, and a salesmen will always play to that subjectivity!!! (and I see many people and jurisdiction have, which is sad sad sad)

Maybe the real question is what COMPUTER was being utilized, but once again a $200 computer or a $5000 computer doesn't make a difference, it 's how they were set-up and used or mis-used. A $100000 computer can still reboot on its own. Then one has to ask was the computer being used, one with ECC memory. ECC would help clear memory errors (to stop reboots), those errors usually cause a non-ECC memory computer to BSOD or reboot. Was the space air conditioned?, regularly & thoroughly maintained?, whether through vacuuming, filters, forced high psi air, or was it even properly electrically protected and separated from other electrical systems in the building, don't tell me the computer is on power strip with a rocker switch, below someone's feet.. It just sounds to me "the radio had little to do with any of this"...

darunimal · Jun 28, 2016

So in conclusion if a $37 million dollar top Phase 1 radio system, 45 miles away on T-Band can be crippled on a particular frequency, in Lancaster County PA, do you think a $337 million dollar Motorola System will over come the sun rising and setting, and hot and cooler temperatures, will $37k, $137k, $3 million, the answers the same no no no no and no!!!!! Fleece consumers or constituents to a fix a problem that's still there, until the get they just get a NEW frequency, is just moronic,. Delaware Co and Folcroft just have to petition the FCC for an Emergency channel not effected by a not so distant (110-130mile radius) Digital Television station.

N2AL · Jun 28, 2016

gewecke said:
Sad ... No Leo or any public safety responder should EVER have to use a POS chinacom piece of crap for safety of life comms, nor should they be allowed to. 73, n9zas

I wholeheartedly agree with you! I'm not saying break the bank when radios and systems are purchased, but don't buy cheap equipment.

Andrew | N2AL
N2AL | Amateur Extra Class Operator - November Two Alpha Lima

darunimal · Jun 28, 2016

The radio didn't fail!

The computer failed!

darunimal · Jun 28, 2016

darunimal said:
Ask Lancaster County Pa what ducting from DC area Digital Television has caused!

http://forums.radioreference.com/pe...unty-p25-system-opensky-system-dumped-34.html and page 35

http://forums.radioreference.com/pe...ter-county-radio-system-upcoming-changes.html

http://forums.radioreference.com/pe...out-curiousity-lowband-totally-gone-pa-2.html old low band 33.90

prcguy · Jun 28, 2016

Nobody knows what causes their radio system to go out for short periods of time and ducting is only one of many possible reasons and probably very low on the list. Unless you have done troubleshooting on their specific system and verified its ducting beyond any doubt, its kind of silly to blame ducting over and over on every post.
prcguy

darunimal said:
Btw the Officers radio worked and it worked to fellow officers, just not to the dispatch centers radio console since the computer was down or in the process of rebooting.

And it doesn't matter which radio you are using whether it's a $3 radio or a $28000 radio, ducting can and will still occur at sunrise and sunset everyday...... Whether you trust your life with x,y, or z radio is totally subjective, and a salesmen will always play to that subjectivity!!! (and I see many people and jurisdiction have, which is sad sad sad)

Maybe the real question is what COMPUTER was being utilized, but once again a $200 computer or a $5000 computer doesn't make a difference, it 's how they were set-up and used or mis-used. A $100000 computer can still reboot on its own. Then one has to ask was the computer being used, one with ECC memory. ECC would help clear memory errors (to stop reboots), those errors usually cause a non-ECC memory computer to BSOD or reboot. Was the space air conditioned?, regularly & thoroughly maintained?, whether through vacuuming, filters, forced high psi air, or was it even properly electrically protected and separated from other electrical systems in the building, don't tell me the computer is on power strip with a rocker switch, below someone's feet.. It just sounds to me "the radio had little to do with any of this"...

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