Want to learn radio programming, unsure where to start

Hello all! I've always had a interest in two way communications since I was younger! Growing up in a emergency services family, the technology end of it has always intrigued me! I'm a member of some local departments in my area, but I was born with Cerebral Palsy (CP) but I consider mine very mild! Only major draw back is that I can't walk without walker assistance. I don't let it bother me! I pretty much do everything anyone else can do, just a bit different! Because of this, I focus more on the tech part of Emergency Services! And by most that know me, I'm known as the tech guy in my area! I'm always up for a challenge! over the years, I've taught myself how to program voice pagers with some research and friend help! My question is, I really wish to learn how to program radios, the correct way, but I'm unsure where to begin! I see videos online and just by watching it doesn't look all that hard! I just wasn't sure if anyone could start me in the right path!!! Thanks to everyone in advance!!!

Depends on the manufacturer. Each brand, radio, software, etc. is different, so while you can find courses from manufacturers and programming specific radios, it may not be what you are looking for.

On the other hand, it'll give you a basic background that you can build off of.
I learned radio programming on the old DOS Motorola RSS. Specifically, I was taught to program our trunked radios. Trying to do that on old DOS software with a 286pc really gave me a good background to build off of. After that, everything else has been pretty easy.

It might be worth starting with a basic commercial 2 way radio and software. Getting something simple like a used Motorola, Kenwood, Icom, etc. radio and software, cable, PC, etc. would give you a good learning tool. Motorola and Kenwood have good help menus in their newer software. Kenwood has good manuals for function programming, too.

If you have an amateur radio license, or even a GMRS license, you could learn to program radios on those frequencies, and then be able to legally play around with the functions. That would let you try different settings and experience what they do.

I'd stay away from the cheap Chinese radios (CCR's) as they don't have all the functions you'd find on higher end commercial/public safety radios (things like MDC1200, trunking, etc.). Also, amateur radios won't have the same functions and tend to program a bit differently that the commercial stuff.

Probably picking up some used but recent Motorola or Kenwood HT's would be a good place to start. Get two that will work on the same band, but maybe two different models/brands so you get some experience.

I'm sure others will have some good suggestions, too.


----------edit-------

looking at your signature, I see a Motorola XTS. Might want to get the software for that, if you don't already have it. Those radios are pretty common and have a lot of functions you can practice with. Get a used radio from a different brand and see if you can make them work together.

There's no school for it. You get the radio, the software, the cables, and you learn. Bonus points if you have an instruction manual to refer to, and actually use it.

Learn by doing.

Personally I am a big Kenwood fan so that is the majority of what I buy, mostly because that's what I started out with and that's what I have dealt with mostly so it's just easier for me. I have one single programming cable that I use to program the 10 or so different models I personally own, and have programmed for others, both mobiles and HT's. So that makes it easier than having to have a separate programming cable for each model of radio.

The best way to learn, like what was said above, it's just to grab a used radio, programming cable, and software. I scan ebay a lot looking for good deals, the majority of the time I will only deal with kenwood dealers who have actually bench tested the radio and include new uncut power cables and brackets and mics in good shape, basically a refurb.

Can you explain further what you need/want ?
Is there a certain brand/model/band you are looking for or anything else specific?
Do you have a certain budget?

A big "Thank You!!!" to all who has replied so far!!! I'm mainly looking to get into Moto stuff. HT Series, XTS Series,to act as a starting point. And eventually go to the APX Series. My somewhat of a fear is: (1) Having the right PC OS for the model(s) I need. (2) "Bricking" a unit. (3) Finding good software and good programming cable(s) I know some unsupported software can be found online. But cables is where I'm on the fence. Some say knock off cables do fine, others say stay away!

portroyalbirdy said:

A big "Thank You!!!" to all who has replied so far!!! I'm mainly looking to get into Moto stuff. HT Series, XTS Series,to act as a starting point. And eventually go to the APX Series. My somewhat of a fear is: (1) Having the right PC OS for the model(s) I need. (2) "Bricking" a unit. (3) Finding good software and good programming cable(s) I know some unsupported software can be found online. But cables is where I'm on the fence. Some say knock off cables do fine, others say stay away!

Click to expand...

Have you checked out Batwing Laboratories yet?

Tons of good info on there to scan over then ask more specific questions in this forum.

I cannot help you out too much with moto specific stuff but there are many other people on here that could sing sweet lullabies in your ear for hours on here about them.

Have fun and keep asking questions.

portroyalbirdy said:

A big "Thank You!!!" to all who has replied so far!!! I'm mainly looking to get into Moto stuff. HT Series, XTS Series,to act as a starting point. And eventually go to the APX Series. My somewhat of a fear is: (1) Having the right PC OS for the model(s) I need. (2) "Bricking" a unit. (3) Finding good software and good programming cable(s) I know some unsupported software can be found online. But cables is where I'm on the fence. Some say knock off cables do fine, others say stay away!

Click to expand...

Hey there...I love to hear it when people show a genuine interest in the technology rather than just "I just wana listen to cops with a cop radio"...because that's how I got started a long time ago, and you are far more likely to learn to do it right.

In my opinion, The best advice for someone literally just starting with Moto is this: get the Motorola CPS for your radio of choice...start with the first menu tree, go to the first tab and click on"HELP". Read EVERYTHING. If you see a term you are not familiar with, copy any paste it into a Google search and read everything that comes up. Do this for every help file link in the entire CPS. You can learn A LOT just by reading the help files and understanding what's in them. That will arm you with enough knowledge to be able to ask intelligent, pointed questions to the more experienced LMR pros on the various forums...the more informed and educated your question sounds...the more likely you are to get an experienced and knowledgeable person to answer.

As for what OS...It looks like you have an xts3k from your signature line...get a Windows XP machine for that(or win 7 for Astro25), bonus if it has native serial ports...there are other options, but that is the most stable one.

if you can't find the software on line, then it's likely Motorola still sells it...sign up for an account and purchase/download...(sorry, this hobby is not cheap)

As for cables, the Chinese ribless work fine for BASIC programming/learning, but they are not as durable as Moto OEM....OEM cables are *usually* not cheap either.


The learning curve is a little steeper than other options out there but if you're genuinely interested it will be fun/rewarding.

immelmen said:

Hey there...I love to hear it when people show a genuine interest in the technology rather than just "I just wana listen to cops with a cop radio"...because that's how I got started a long time ago, and you are far more likely to learn to do it right.

In my opinion, The best advice for someone literally just starting with Moto is this: get the Motorola CPS for your radio of choice...start with the first menu tree, go to the first tab and click on"HELP". Read EVERYTHING. If you see a term you are not familiar with, copy any paste it into a Google search and read everything that comes up. Do this for every help file link in the entire CPS. You can learn A LOT just by reading the help files and understanding what's in them. That will arm you with enough knowledge to be able to ask intelligent, pointed questions to the more experienced LMR pros on the various forums...the more informed and educated your question sounds...the more likely you are to get an experienced and knowledgeable person to answer.

As for what OS...It looks like you have an xts3k from your signature line...get a Windows XP machine for that(or win 7 for Astro25), bonus if it has native serial ports...there are other options, but that is the most stable one.

if you can't find the software on line, then it's likely Motorola still sells it...sign up for an account and purchase/download...(sorry, this hobby is not cheap)

As for cables, the Chinese ribless work fine for BASIC programming/learning, but they are not as durable as Moto OEM....OEM cables are *usually* not cheap either.


The learning curve is a little steeper than other options out there but if you're genuinely interested it will be fun/rewarding.

Click to expand...

I have one comment to add. I have found that programming cables with FDTI chips work the best for computer operating systems. These knock-off's often die depending on upgrades.

You can buy them on Amazon pretty cheap, but they're reliable.



Andrew | N2AL
N2AL - Amateur Extra Class Operator

One might consider getting a ham radio license (above tech) and actually learning the theory not just memorizing for the exam. Or, any other radio license that requires learning the terms and theory for modern radios. That will give you a background on what the cryptic settings and options are all about, and how they must be matched, enabled, or ignored on pretty much all of the radios.

You can't worry about computer OSes right now. Obsolete radios like the old Moto's sometimes still require genuine DOS and even worse, a genuine hardware serial port, not a USB converter. You may need to buy an old used computer with specific hardware, and either add multiple OSes to boot on it, or if you really want to work on a lot of things, you will need to buy several computers and configure each for specific needs. That's just the way it goes.

That will of course either mean learning computer OSes and hardware, or again, simply getting multiple (simple and stable that way) systems. Fortunately old laptops are "good enough" and dirt cheap.

Each radio family will be different. Some will allow or require cloning cables, again, specific types for specific radios. Clone cables? Forget it, the last thing you need to is be banging your head against the wall trying to figure out if cheap clones are a problem, or if you're still on the learning curve. Buy products that are proven and "certified" whenever possible, at least until you know what works.

Programming software? Well, again, all you can do is look for recommendations, buy what is needed for each job, and yes, RTFM for each product, invest time learning it, and look for help online when the software is badly documented, as much is.

Unless you are focused on a particular radio series, that can all mean a lot of exploring and learning and buying.

N2AL said:

I have one comment to add. I have found that programming cables with FDTI chips work the best for computer operating systems. These knock-off's often die depending on upgrades.

You can buy them on Amazon pretty cheap, but they're reliable.



Andrew | N2AL
N2AL - Amateur Extra Class Operator

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I will have to STRONGLY disagree here.

Pure serial (RS232) cables will work more reliably than any usb cable on the market.

toastycookies said:

I will have to STRONGLY disagree here.



Pure serial (RS232) cables will work more reliably than any usb cable on the market.

Click to expand...

I would disagree. I use all USB cables, except for two serial cables that were given to me. I have yet to have any issues with my USB cables once I installed the correct drivers. They just work. No issues.

It is harder to find computers that have a true RS-232 port these days. Heck, unless you buy a tough book, I doubt you will find a laptop with a true RS-232 port on it.

My USB cables:

RT System:
-TM-v71a
-FT-270
-FT-8800
Kenwood:
-RJ-45 mobiles(NXDN-700 ect.)
-Multi pin portable(NX-200 ect.)
-Kenwood 2 pin(TK-2710 ect.)
CSI:
-CS-700
My two serial cables are for Vertex (VX-213/VX-3200) and an Icom mobile cable.

immelmen said:

Hey there...I love to hear it when people show a genuine interest in the technology rather than just "I just wana listen to cops with a cop radio".

Click to expand...

Im with you on that i can't just sit around all day and just push buttons and turn dials........

Rred said:

You can't worry about computer OSes right now. Obsolete radios like the old Moto's sometimes still require genuine DOS and even worse, a genuine hardware serial port, not a USB converter.

Click to expand...

Actually, there are MANY obsolete Motorola radios that use CPS, rather than RSS to program.

Astro Saber
Astro Spectra plus
XTS 3000
HT 750/1250/1550 does not need a physical serial port, USB cables work fine
CDM 750/1250/1550 does not need a physical serial port, USB cables work fine.
Pretty sure you can program MTS/MCS radios with USB cables as well.

I'm sure there are more, these are just ones I though of off the top of my head.

My own experiences tell me these rules:

Do not use aftermarket cables on any radio with enough of a brain to have a display and a menu system. Do not cheap out on these cables, use the OEM cables only.

No, USB is not completely trustworthy. I have never once bricked a radio via RS232 with a factory programming cable. I HAVE had to send radios back to Motorola due to a USB programming issue.

USB is NOT as reliable as serial. Serial is much closer to "hard wired" into the motherboard, while USB is far closer to a software defined application and it is one that can, and will, have its functionality compromised by some glitch in the operating system. That is not to say that software issues can't affect RS232 cables as well but my own (fairly extensive) experience has me not really trusting USB cables all that much.

The USB connector is FAR more fragile than the DB9 serial connector. For mobile programming, absolutely I recommend using the DB9 serial cables and NOT using the USB cables if you have a choice. That issue matters less on the bench, but if you're using a laptop and moving from vehicle to vehicle to reprogram a radio fleet, you do NOT want USB programming cables if you have a choice.

While I'm on the subject of programming laptops, USE SSDs, not spinny drives.

Even if you maintain an OLD laptop for DOS based Motorola software applications, for a few bucks you can get IDE to CF card adapters and can convert over your old computer to run on solid state media this way. Which removes the weakest link in your programming laptop: A very old hard drive.

kayn1n32008 said:

I would disagree. I use all USB cables, except for two serial cables that were given to me. I have yet to have any issues with my USB cables once I installed the correct drivers. They just work. No issues.

It is harder to find computers that have a true RS-232 port these days. Heck, unless you buy a tough book, I doubt you will find a laptop with a true RS-232 port on it.

My USB cables:

RT System:
-TM-v71a
-FT-270
-FT-8800
Kenwood:
-RJ-45 mobiles(NXDN-700 ect.)
-Multi pin portable(NX-200 ect.)
-Kenwood 2 pin(TK-2710 ect.)
CSI:
-CS-700
My two serial cables are for Vertex (VX-213/VX-3200) and an Icom mobile cable.

Click to expand...

It's actually a point of non-issue. Apex and TRBO don't even support serial for programming (802.3 over USB). In fact, the NX line is the same. So if your stay current you would be support older stuff with older hardware and newer stuff with newer.

That being said, I try to avoid adapters when I can. Best adapter is the Brainboxes Express Card to serial adapter in terms of reliability (show me another manufacturer that features a lifetime guarantee on the adapter). Unfortunately as of last year Express Card slots have become obsolete.

You can get away with Windows 7 (32 bit) and an adapter for a lot of stuff but when you begin to mess with Lab/Depot you need the hardware/OS the software was specifically built for.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

toastycookies said:

I will have to STRONGLY disagree here.

Pure serial (RS232) cables will work more reliably than any usb cable on the market.

Click to expand...

Both work fine. The problem is when trying to use a serial cable on a laptop that only has USB ports. The USB to serial adapters don't work well, & that causes the problems.

"Pure serial (RS232) cables will work more reliably than any usb cable on the market."
At one time Dell got panned for using 5 volts in some laptop serial ports, which is fine to TTL cables but falls short of the 12v standard for "real" serial cables.
So that's one difference. If a device expects 12v on the serial connection, there's no way a 5v USB adapter is going to make it happy. Period.
And then there's handshaking. There are three hardware handshaking lines on a real RS-232 port,plus several options for software handshaking, and no USB emulator can "emulate" three physical hardware handshaking connections. Just ain't that many extra wires on USB, and no standards for the control logic.
Somewhere in all that is why Motoheads still need real RS-232 cables and a real DOS OS, not any version or kind of Windows or iOS or emulators. I tried one of my computers, with a genuine serial port and booting from DOS, and programmed some Motos without any problem.
Tried again with all sorts of DOS emulators, virtual machines, etc. and using the same serial port--no joy. Also tried a MS HCL listed logo certified emulator cable and guess what? No joy. And since DOS does not support USB devices, you'll never be able to plug a USB-serial emulator cable into a computer that's running DOS, either.

Sometimes, you can kludge stuff. Other times? Just ain't gonna happen. A good kludge can be a great thing, but in this area, it has pretty much been proven that there are physical reasons why "that ain't gonna fit in there".

N2AL said:

I have one comment to add. I have found that programming cables with FDTI chips work the best for computer operating systems. These knock-off's often die depending on upgrades.

You can buy them on Amazon pretty cheap, but they're reliable.



Andrew | N2AL
N2AL - Amateur Extra Class Operator

Click to expand...

toastycookies said:

I will have to STRONGLY disagree here.



Pure serial (RS232) cables will work more reliably than any usb cable on the market.

Click to expand...

I agree that RS232 serial cables are the way to go. I actually prefer using serial cables rather than USB, but sometimes USB is the only option available. When you have to resort to USB, go OEM or FDTI.



Andrew | N2AL
N2AL - Amateur Extra Class Operator

If you use a usb for the xts or xtl motorola reccomends the iogear rs232 to usb adapter.