How much fine tuning a new radio is actually needed?

I purchased a new (2015) Galaxy DX 959 SSB cb and have been told by at least four people that these radios come out the box at about 75% of there rated FCC allowables. What's the scoop with this?

I was also in formed that the Galaxy DX 959 is the easiest radio to push beyond the FCC signal output. I was under the understanding that these radios are not to be tampered with in that respect.

I am a real newbie at this so be patient with my rather obvious stupidity.

Les

No fine tuning is needed, just connect power, antenna, mic and talk away! Simple isn't it! . 73, n9zas

Well, I did use the built in SWR meter to tune the antenna. I have the SWR sitting at about 1.6 on ch. 1 & 40.

I am looking at a Firestik II antenna rather than the magnetic mount roof antenna that was given to me.

Yeah, I'd tend to agree here. I wouldn't let anyone mess with your radio.

These guys that do this are referred to as "Golden Screwdrivers". They'll claim to "peak and tune" the radios for a not so minor fee. Trouble is, they are usually guys that learned somewhere along the way to twist a pot, spread some coils, or generally fiddle around while watching the needle on a watt meter.

Honest truth is that RF power output isn't as important as many people think it is. Even if your 4 watt radio is only running a 75%, the 3 watts versus 4 watts isn't going to amount to anything noticeable. And, yeah, you could probably get someone to tweak it just right and get 12 or 15 watts out of it, but again, all this is is RF output. Usually it comes at the expense of spectral cleanliness, etc. Cranking the power on these radios sometimes just splatters signal all over the CB band. Sure, the needle on the watt meter is showing more power, but is all that power going where you really want it?

If you were going to do this, I'd really shop around and find a technician that's got the knowledge and tools to do it right. That would mean more than just an expensive watt meter. They really need to be looking at the actually RF emissions of the radio. Making sure it's on frequency, it's inside the channel it's supposed to be, and your increase in RF power is going where you need it to go.

Personally I don't see the point. Like I said above, the increase in RF power isn't what makes it work well. Put the money you'd spend on a "peak and tune" into better coax and a better antenna. That'll work better than the golden screwdriver treatment.

I allowed someone to tune a CB once, end result was splattering across most of the 40 channels. Ended up paying someone else to fix it. This was 20 years ago before I knew much about HAM radio.

Another thing I'd add:

Just looking at the transmit side of the radio is sort of pointless. Since you have a 2 way radio, you really need to look at the transmitter AND the receiver. You can have someone tweak your radio to get a few more watts out, but if the receiver is deaf, all you are doing is broadcasting one way messages.

Before you let someone touch your radio, find out what they do on the receive side. Finding a talented technician, not some guy at a truck stop, who can adjust the receiver as well as the transmitter would be much more useful.

Remember, if you can't hear them you can't really talk to them.
Put the money into your antenna system first, that'll give you more "bang for your loonie".

mmckenna said:

Another thing I'd add:

Just looking at the transmit side of the radio is sort of pointless. Since you have a 2 way radio, you really need to look at the transmitter AND the receiver. You can have someone tweak your radio to get a few more watts out, but if the receiver is deaf, all you are doing is broadcasting one way messages.

Before you let someone touch your radio, find out what they do on the receive side. Finding a talented technician, not some guy at a truck stop, who can adjust the receiver as well as the transmitter would be much more useful.

Remember, if you can't hear them you can't really talk to them.
Put the money into your antenna system first, that'll give you more "bang for your loonie".

Click to expand...

+1
Best antenna I ever had was a full 1/4 wave 102" whip mounted to my metal toolbox in the bed of a truck. Got more bang for the buck than anything else I tried back in the day. Had a K40 prior to that which worked ok but not like the full 102" whip.

Need to get the swr under 1.5. The lower the better. Anything over 1.5 will damage, and eventually burn out the finals. Instead of a fire stick, look at a Francis antenna. The wire is inside the shaft instead of on the outside. The external wire tends to get damaged easily. Also, the Francis is pretty flexible and will bend (within reason) instead of snapping. I gave only $20 each for mine, so they are a bargin and perform really well.

Yeah, antenna is almost everything.

A cheap radio with a really good antenna will outperform an expensive radio with a cheap antenna, every day.

I've never had good luck with fiberglass antennas, but I think the OP is talking about a base install, at least that is what his other posts are about.
Personally I always used Larsen NMO-27. Professional antenna designed for real world use. Look after them and they'll last a lifetime. I've got one I used to have on a truck 23 years ago, I rarely use it now, but still works great.
Of course nothing beats a 102" whip.

All this antenna stuff is pointless if it isn't installed correctly. Most of the antenna installs I see are pretty bad.

SnowWalker said:

Well, I did use the built in SWR meter to tune the antenna. I have the SWR sitting at about 1.6 on ch. 1 & 40. <snip>

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farmrboy said:

Need to get the swr under 1.5. The lower the better. Anything over 1.5 will damage, and eventually burn out the finals. <snip>

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In reality, assuming a 4 watt output at the antenna port, the reflected power versus VSWR is:

• 0.215 Watts reflected (1:1.6 VSWR)
• 0.16 Watts reflected (1:1.5 VSWR)

so the reflected power difference is 0.055 Watts which is negligible. In reality, a 1:1.6 VSWR is very respectable. It is true, however, the lower the better but if 1:1.6 VSWR is as low as you can get it, you should be fine.

One thing that I would caution you on is the accuracy of the Galaxy's built-in SWR meter. If you can find a local club where somebody has a good standalone SWR meter, that would be good to do a "sanity check" against the Galaxy's built-in SWR meter.

73, Dave K4EET

Living in the mountains

I live in the mountains so my SWR readings are all over the guage. Sometimes 1.2 all the way to 2.4.

I amgoing to do some serious study on antennas. It seems that personal reference plays as much of a part in their selection as does actual performance.

SnowWalker said:

I live in the mountains so my SWR readings are all over the guage. Sometimes 1.2 all the way to 2.4.

I amgoing to do some serious study on antennas. It seems that personal reference plays as much of a part in their selection as does actual performance.

Click to expand...

What does living in the mountains have to do with a high swr? 73, n9zas

No it won't, most modern CBs will transmit almost indefinitely with no antenna connected and you won't hurt the radio. Over 2:1 and some radios with built in protection will back down the power anyway.

On the Firestick antenna, in the 1970s and 80s when I worked at and managed a CB shop we had a 4ft Firestick for demonstration. We let customers whip and beat it against the sharp edge concrete in front of the shop every day for about 5yrs and it was still usable after that. I know the end of the antenna that was smacking the concrete was going at least 100mph most of the time. Do the same to a Francis and it won't last very long.
prcguy

farmrboy said:

Need to get the swr under 1.5. The lower the better. Anything over 1.5 will damage, and eventually burn out the finals. Instead of a fire stick, look at a Francis antenna. The wire is inside the shaft instead of on the outside. The external wire tends to get damaged easily. Also, the Francis is pretty flexible and will bend (within reason) instead of snapping. I gave only $20 each for mine, so they are a bargin and perform really well.

Click to expand...

SnowWalker said:

I live in the mountains so my SWR readings are all over the guage. Sometimes 1.2 all the way to 2.4.

I amgoing to do some serious study on antennas. It seems that personal reference plays as much of a part in their selection as does actual performance.

Click to expand...

SWR, simply put, is a measurement of how well the radio is matched with the your antenna and coax to get the most out of the output from the radio. Terrain has nothing to do with it.

SnowWalker said:

I live in the mountains so my SWR readings are all over the guage. Sometimes 1.2 all the way to 2.4.

I amgoing to do some serious study on antennas. It seems that personal reference plays as much of a part in their selection as does actual performance.

Click to expand...

What mag mount came with the radio? New, unopened, or used by the person who you got the radio from?
I'm going to go with what was posted, get an actual CB meter and hook it between the antenna and radio. Is there anyone near you that can help you?
And, no, terrain has nothing to do with SWR.
Larry

The mag antenna

The 3' antenna was given to me by a ham operator " VE7BZE ". (the radio is new out of the box) and is mounted on the cab center of a Ford Ranger PU (the antenna that is). When I am parked in my driveway, where my garage door is metal, my SWR reading sits around 2.4. When I parked out on the street, about 25 yards from the driveway, the SWR reads a constant 1.2. I am thinking that the garage door has something to do with the swing in the SWR readings.

I now have a 16' roof top antenna that I am going to set up then to see how that works. My grandson, who is arborist is going haul the 16' ft. antenna to the top of a 175 ft tree that I mentioned in another thread; however, he feels that the wind may move the antenna around too much.

I'll just keep plugging away at it until I get the readings I am satisfied with. You guys are a great help!

SnowWalker said:

The 3' antenna was given to me by a ham operator " VE7BZE ". (the radio is new out of the box) and is mounted on the cab center of a Ford Ranger PU (the antenna that is). When I am parked in my driveway, where my garage door is metal, my SWR reading sits around 2.4. When I parked out on the street, about 25 yards from the driveway, the SWR reads a constant 1.2. I am thinking that the garage door has something to do with the swing in the SWR readings.

I now have a 16' roof top antenna that I am going to set up then to see how that works. My grandson, who is arborist is going haul the 16' ft. antenna to the top of a 175 ft tree that I mentioned in another thread; however, he feels that the wind may move the antenna around too much.

I'll just keep plugging away at it until I get the readings I am satisfied with. You guys are a great help!

Click to expand...

That 16' antenna would be better served attaching it to the house. I read your post about the tree and length of coax you'd need to get it to your house. Way too much coax for what you want to do. For a CB that transmits 4 watts AM, and ~12 watts SSB, you would lose your signal through the coax, regardless of what you use.
Your son is correct about the tree moving and messing with the signal. Set it up on the house, use quality RG8 with the connectors soldered on correctly, even if you have to buy the run of coax with the connectors installed.
You'll be happier in the long run.
Now, a 175' tower would be a different story
HTH,
Larry

"is going haul the 16' ft. antenna to the top of a 175 ft tree"
I just hope it is a wireless antenna, so you can avoid all those costs and problems getting 175'++ of really good coax cable.

(WEG)

SnowWalker said:

The 3' antenna was given to me by a ham operator " VE7BZE ". (the radio is new out of the box) and is mounted on the cab center of a Ford Ranger PU (the antenna that is). When I am parked in my driveway, where my garage door is metal, my SWR reading sits around 2.4. When I parked out on the street, about 25 yards from the driveway, the SWR reads a constant 1.2. I am thinking that the garage door has something to do with the swing in the SWR readings.

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Absolutely. The metal garage door is reflecting the signal. Moving away from it decreases this effect.
This is why antenna test ranges are wide open areas with nothing around the antenna.

Sounds like 1.2:1 is what your real reading is. This is very much acceptable.

What counts more than that is how well it works. If you are getting the coverage you need, then leave it as is. Don't get to hung up in meter readings. Going through the gyrations to get the 1.2 down to 1.1 isn't going to net you anything noticeable.

mmckenna said:

e.

What counts more than that is how well it works. If you are getting the coverage you need, then leave it as is. Don't get to hung up in meter readings. Going through the gyrations to get the 1.2 down to 1.1 isn't going to net you anything noticeable.

Click to expand...

Last night I had a great gab session with a group in California, New Mex. & Kansas. I just parked at the summit of one of the mountains in our neighbourhood and there they were. Also had a brief chat on LSB with a fellow who is based in Oregon.

There is no doubt that the little cab tmounted, mag. antenna works as well as could be expected