TPD and TFD Crosspatching - 1 August 2016

Effective today, direct radio communications between Tucson Police Department and Tucson Fire Department will be possible, outside of the Interop talkgroups. This is meant to be temporary, although temporary should be viewed as relative term as it may be this way for quite a long time.

Basically, the actual talkgroups that each department talks on, for their normal day to day operations does not change. Those entities will continue to broadcast and receive on their respective agencies talkgroups.

The change comes in that they will be cross-patched to either a TPD or TFD talkgroup and you may need to be tuned to a TFD talkgroup to hear a TPD division talkgroup’s activity. Or, you may need to be tuned to a TPD talkgroup to hear a TFD EMS talkgroup’s activity.

Read on to see how I think I’ve solved this issue…

So, here is how it is supposed to work…

There are four TPD divisions, all work the same, so let’s pick on the south division – Team-1. Team-1 is doing their thing on their talkgroup, but in order to hear them you have to be listening to TFD talkgroup 15011.

Why ? This allows a member of TFD to directly interface and communicate with TPD on a joint TFD/TPD event and coordinate the results. At this point, it is meant for the TFD person to clarify information, but it is not intended for TFD to conduct their fire operations on this talkgroup. They would still fight fires on the “normal” TFD firefighting talkgroups. Again, it allows the TFD personnel the opportunity to clarify directly with those involved, rather than having to go up and down their respective commands to bring the event to a conclusion.

Similarly, EMS operations will be cross-patched to TPD’s old “Team-5” talkgroups. Same principle here. This allows the TPD officer on the scene with the medics folks to coordinate directly, as needed. It would not be used for TPD to communicate within their own chain of command structure.

So, to make this easier, I have changed the category tags to “Multi-Dispatch”. So be sure to turn this category tag on in your scanner, so you won’t miss any of the related action in the future.

Depending upon your scanner’s capability, it may show the originating or cross-patched talkgroup for the activity. It shouldn’t really matter, since the “Multi-Dispatch” tag will allow you to listen to the activity, the end goal 

Team-1 crosspatch is TFD TG 15011
Team-2 crosspatch is TFD TG 15012
Team-3 crosspatch is TFD TG 15013
Team-4 crosspatch is TFD TG 15013

TFD EMS-North crosspatch is TPD TG 19012 (former Team-5 dispatch)
TFD EMS-South crosspatch is TPD TG 19013 (former Team-5 crosstalk)

It's a shame that Uniden scanners do not follow patches on P25 systems. This would not be a problem.

Are the team 3 and 4 talkgroups both supposed to be 15013?

kd7eir said:

Are the team 3 and 4 talkgroups both supposed to be 15013?

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Oops a typo on my part on letting everyone know. It is correct in the database. Team 4 is 15014.

Sorry about that.

Thanks,

P25 talk-group patches

cellphone said:

It's a shame that Uniden scanners do not follow patches on P25 systems. This would not be a problem.

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+1. I read somewhere that it may be a patent issue. Uniden apparently had a patent on the Motorola 3600baud Status Bit technology as GRE was never able to offer that ability. However, GRE beat Uniden on P25 Talk group Patches when they added that technology to the PSR-500 (and subsequent models) with a firmware update. So apparently GRE, and now Whistler, has a patent that's preventing Uniden from offering it.

To my knowledge, Paul "Upman" has never answered any of the countless messages about P25 Patches so a patent issue seems likely. Unfortunate for Uniden and their customers.

Keith

Thanks for taking the time to straighten everything out Flano.

Question about the 19..... number series vs. 115.....series

I own the BCD436HP that came with the Sentinel software. My original and current list of Favorites for TPD contains all the 19.... numbers under the heading "TGID". For instance, my list starts with Team - 1 (South) and a TGID of 19000. All the other channels follow suit....all the Teams, Crosstalks, Tactical, etc... and end in 19014. For anyone not familiar with Sentinel, all the channels are prelisted so you just have to click on the one you want and add it to your Favorites. The Favorites list (on your PC) is then transferred to the unit itself when the unit is plugged into the PC.

Today, however, I received an updated version of Sentinel, and it lists just the frequencies....as in the old analog days...but no TGID's of these channels. There are no 19....numbers nor are there 15... numbers that you mention. For instance, Team 1 is now listed as:

TPD F1 - Team 1- South Patrol with a frequency of 155.010000. No other numbers are present.

I realize I probably need to update/edit my Favorites list and get that to my unit, because now I notice I am only receiving Team 2 (19003), Team 5 (19012...which now is TFD conversation) and Team 5 Crosstalk (19013...possibly EMT's?). I've been pretty busy and had not noticed this change until now.

Needless to say, I'm not the world's greatest expert at this. I love my Uniden but it wasn't easy to launch. Before I go tampering with my Favorite's list, I could use some advice. Thanks!

Tucsonlady said:

I own the BCD436HP that came with the Sentinel software. My original and current list of Favorites for TPD contains all the 19.... numbers under the heading "TGID". For instance, my list starts with Team - 1 (South) and a TGID of 19000. All the other channels follow suit....all the Teams, Crosstalks, Tactical, etc... and end in 19014. For anyone not familiar with Sentinel, all the channels are prelisted so you just have to click on the one you want and add it to your Favorites. The Favorites list (on your PC) is then transferred to the unit itself when the unit is plugged into the PC.

Today, however, I received an updated version of Sentinel, and it lists just the frequencies....as in the old analog days...but no TGID's of these channels. There are no 19....numbers nor are there 15... numbers that you mention. For instance, Team 1 is now listed as:

TPD F1 - Team 1- South Patrol with a frequency of 155.010000. No other numbers are present.

I realize I probably need to update/edit my Favorites list and get that to my unit, because now I notice I am only receiving Team 2 (19003), Team 5 (19012...which now is TFD conversation) and Team 5 Crosstalk (19013...possibly EMT's?). I've been pretty busy and had not noticed this change until now.

Needless to say, I'm not the world's greatest expert at this. I love my Uniden but it wasn't easy to launch. Before I go tampering with my Favorite's list, I could use some advice. Thanks!

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Where are you seeing that in Sentinel? My latest version has TPD properly listed under USA -> Arizona -> Pima -> County Systems -> Pima County Wireless Integrated network (PCWIN) -> Tucson Police

My Sentinel version is 1.07 and looks like this:
USA > Arizona > Pima > County Systems > Pima > Pima County -Tucson

Clicking the last one reveals the list, which includes TPD, TFD, Reid Park Zoo Operations and several others including Sun Tran Operations.

There are no Talk Group ID numbers, just frequencies. Which poses the question did Sentinel make a mistake in their latest version?

My old version was 1.02. When I went to update my scanner, a pop up appeared that stated there was a new version and i should download that before I updated the scanner.

The version you have is on my old computer and I recognize the steps you gave. I tried to update to the new version on that PC but it is XP and whatever I was trying didn't work. So I plugged the scanner into the new computer instead. Look at your HELP link on Sentinel to see what version you have.

Tucsonlady said:

My Sentinel version is 1.07 and looks like this:
USA > Arizona > Pima > County Systems > Pima > Pima County -Tucson

Clicking the last one reveals the list, which includes TPD, TFD, Reid Park Zoo Operations and several others including Sun Tran Operations.

There are no Talk Group ID numbers, just frequencies. Which poses the question did Sentinel make a mistake in their latest version?

My old version was 1.02. When I went to update my scanner, a pop up appeared that stated there was a new version and i should download that before I updated the scanner.

The version you have is on my old computer and I recognize the steps you gave. I tried to update to the new version on that PC but it is XP and whatever I was trying didn't work. So I plugged the scanner into the new computer instead. Look at your HELP link on Sentinel to see what version you have.

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Interesting. Here are screenshots, one showing the location you indicated, and one showing TPD under PCWIN

You might want to uninstall and reinstall Sentinel

Yes, if I go to my Favorites list (downloaded on the new PC), the TGID numbers are still there, just like you're showing. I'm thinking I need to throw out my old list and make a new one based on the new information....except no talk groups are listed.

Do you still receive all the channels? I have lost Team 1, 3 and only get cross talk from 4.

Sometime back, to improve quality, I eliminated a few of the transmitting stations (i.e. Confidence Peak and Simulcast North), but I doubt that can be my problem.

I'm going to make a second Favorite's list and see if that works. Thanks!

Tucsonlady said:

Yes, if I go to my Favorites list (downloaded on the new PC), the TGID numbers are still there, just like you're showing. I'm thinking I need to throw out my old list and make a new one based on the new information....except no talk groups are listed.

Do you still receive all the channels? I have lost Team 1, 3 and only get cross talk from 4.

Sometime back, to improve quality, I eliminated a few of the transmitting stations (i.e. Confidence Peak and Simulcast North), but I doubt that can be my problem.

I'm going to make a second Favorite's list and see if that works. Thanks!

Click to expand...

I am still getting all the TPD radio traffic.

There were some changes made to allow TPD and TFD to communicate easier, this can cause you to miss TPD traffic sometimes when they are linked with TFD.

Add these to your TPD programming and you will still hear TPD if they are doing a patch with TFD:

19012 TPD/EMS-N TPD Crosspatch with TFD EMS-North
19013 TPD/EMS-S TPD Crosspatch with TFD EMS-South

If you monitor TFD, add these to that list:

15011 TFD/TPD T-1 B8 / TFD Crosspatch with TPD Team-1
15012 TFD/TPD T-2 B9 / TFD Crosspatch with TPD Team-2
15013 TFD/TPD T-3 B10 / TFD Crosspatch with TPD Team-3
15014 TFD/TPD T-4 B11 / TFD Crosspatch with TPD Team-4

Yes, you are correct. My old list does not specify "multi dispatch" on my missing channels in the "Service Type" column and that's my problem. Thank you!

I erased my old Favorites list, replaced it with the updated TPD data and added the TFD channels you mentioned. Everything is working now. Thanks again!

Tucsonlady said:

I erased my old Favorites list, replaced it with the updated TPD data and added the TFD channels you mentioned. Everything is working now. Thanks again!

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Great. Glad that I could help.

I just found this thread after I asked in a new one...

Does this mean that someone listening to 19000, 19003, 19006 and 19009 will not hear TPD, they have to listen for them on the Fire talkgroups?

I had a caller today say he was not hearing Tucson PD on those talkgroups...



198398

No what this means is you must have all the talkgroups for TPD programmed in.

TPD will switch on the patch whenever activity involves TFD, hence multi-dispatch label, so that a TFD firefighter would be able to talk directly with the dispatch and/or TPD officer involved in the activity.

The TFD TGs reflect the activity on and of, purely based upon the need for the multi-department coordination.

Literally, one minute TPD Team 1 will be on the TPD TG, then the next it will be on the TFD TAC TG that corresponds to TPD Team 1.

I PURPOSELY changed it to multi-dispatch, to avoid this confusion that numerous scannerists are having with not being able to follow, where did TPD go ?

If one were to only listen to "Law" related labeled TGs, and locked out "Fire" related labeled TGs, one would never hear TPD when they show up on the TFD TGs. Labelling them as Multi-dispatch, allows for your scanner to continue to hear the TPD activity, and still allowing one to lock out "Fire".

Thanks for staying on top of this Hot Tucson issue Flanagan.

Do your latest 12 updates to the D.B. on 9-23 involve any TPD/TFD crosspatch issues ?


"(12) Talkgroups Updated (multi-category change) FLANO 2016-09-23 00:08:08"

I'll put my 2 cents worth in on this.

I scan by talk groups (I don't pay a lot of attention to the labels) and have had the ability to scan trunked systems for about a month and a half. I live SW of Tucson and scan Team 1 which is the closest one to me. For the first 2 weeks I was unable to listen to Team 1, but then I discovered TG 15011. Since then I have scanned both 19000 and 15011 and have observed that 19000 will be working for 1 to 3 days and then stop for up to 2 weeks. By the way it is working today.

Since I discovered 15011, I have found that it works all the time. I have not observed any switching between them. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Are they working on 19000 or what?

Anyone know what's happening? Any ideas?

Since it involves Multi-category, I would suspect that is when I updated it to Multi-dispatch on those TG's.

I can't see the physical updates that I made, except for right after the update, with the color changes on the area maps.

mothertrucker said:

Thanks for staying on top of this Hot Tucson issue Flanagan.

Do your latest 12 updates to the D.B. on 9-23 involve any TPD/TFD crosspatch issues ?


"(12) Talkgroups Updated (multi-category change) FLANO 2016-09-23 00:08:08"

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