BCD436HP/BCD536HP: & BCD536HP

Who else absolutely hates One Frequency Systems on these scanners? I can't be the only one. I tried to give it a go again this afternoon, 4 hours and not much in the way of audio past the speaker. 10 minutes ago I went back to conventional, and I'm hearing the good stuff again.

I don't know, is it user error on my part? I've tried manual 5-13 with no better results, I've tried several frequencies per site, one frequency per site, ID search on and ID search off, all CC's and slots set and set to search for CC and slot any. While searching for everything scan rate is slow. Scan rate will speed up if I turn off ID search and program CC and slot. But, again, I don't hear very much while using One Frequency. It's been very frustrating.

For the last several weeks I've been using only MotoTurbo trunk and Conventional programming. The 436 and 536 have been like new scanners. I guess it's best to just stick with what I know works for me.

Just wanted to know if anyone else out in scanner land is having similar issues.

Well, I seem to have made some headway programming as One Frequency systems. I don't know how, but I'm hearing as much now as I would programmed conventionally. Seems to scan reasonably quick now too. All I really did was a hard reset, and reprogrammed all my systems from scratch.

I am noticing an issue with TGID's. TGID's from other systems are showing up, but I hear the audio from the correct system. Example: The TGID for a grocery warehouse showed, during a transmission for an Airport's baggage communication. I do have ID search turned on, however, the frequencies & Color Codes between the two systems are different.

I know there has still been some issue with bogus TGID's, but I've never seen this happen.

Anybody else seen anything like this?

The various forms of programming DMR on the Unidens is pretty frustrating. If you program as conventional, some frequencies tend to hang on control or other data. You generally can't program an unknown system as a MotoTRBO trunked if you don't know for sure all of the frequencies and the LCNs (and/or take the time to use various tools to figure that out - if they work - and/or if the system is busy enough). I've tried several times to program things as One Frequency systems but in that mode, I tend to hear alot less than in conventional mode.

MotoTRBO works pretty good, I've never really had any issues there as long as the correct info is used. Conventional works great. I usually set the Color Code for each known frequency and avoid the control channels. One Frequency systems were a problem. Once I reset yesterday, and, I should have mentioned in my other post, I also reformatted the card. Things seemed much better last night. Today will be the real test. I have the 436 setup at work with my mobile antenna. Much more going on during the day.

The talk group thing is really getting on the nerves though now. Last night on the NJ TRBO Ham system, I was seeing various TGID's from Hospitals, EMS Dispatch, and grocery warehouses, but hearing the HAM conversations. It happens on all my systems, NJ TRBO is used as an example. This only seems to happen on One Frequency systems.

3 hours and 20 minutes and it's been a pretty busy morning according to my 536 programmed conventionally. My 436 and 536 are programmed exactly the same. While the One Frequency system is better than it was, I'm still not hearing as much as conventional programming. At least I finally seem to be getting somewhere. I've switched over to conventional on the 436, and now both 436 and 536 are hearing the same things about the same time.

sibbley said:

3 hours and 20 minutes and it's been a pretty busy morning according to my 536 programmed conventionally. My 436 and 536 are programmed exactly the same. While the One Frequency system is better than it was, I'm still not hearing as much as conventional programming. At least I finally seem to be getting somewhere. I've switched over to conventional on the 436, and now both 436 and 536 are hearing the same things about the same time.

Click to expand...

http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-tavern/340135-bcd536hp-post2644071.html#post2644034

"I've tried several times to program things as One Frequency systems but in that mode, I tend to hear alot less than in conventional mode."

troymail said:

http://forums.radioreference.com/uniden-tavern/340135-bcd536hp-post2644071.html#post2644034

"I've tried several times to program things as One Frequency systems but in that mode, I tend to hear alot less than in conventional mode."

Click to expand...

Yes, I saw that in your earlier post. The question is why? Is it just you and me having this issue?

This probably doesnt help but my self and another user in my area (Dallas) recently had a long email chat about picking up odd TG and realized that with his roof antenna and his location he actually was picking up 3 different DMR systems from his location and i was only able to monitor one. We did some checking on the licensing and sure enough all 3 systems had a similar channel. They were spaced far enough from me that i was only picking up one but for him it was a huge mess.
For us it seems that there are many DMR users licensed on identical channels seperated by 10-15 miles each. With the county being 900 square miles and having many suburbs it seems like your suggestion of using color codes is a good one. Thats the same thing we came up with.
That helped reduce the TG issue he was initially having.

I have been so used to public safety systems having no co channel interference that i forgot about the possibility that these private or commercial DMR systems (conventional and trunking) may have multiple licenses in a relatively small geographical area.

sibbley said:

Yes, I saw that in your earlier post. The question is why? Is it just you and me having this issue?

Click to expand...

In my estimation, most people don't know they are missing traffic (you'd need to have a 2nd radio or other device to detect the missing traffic and/or park on a given channel/talkgroup for an extended period to know this is happening - only some of us actually do that). Most folks are just happy to hear anything - particularly if they are scanning many systems (it's pretty natural to miss traffic when you are scanning - the more you try to monitor, the more you'll miss - even in a perfect world).

Having said that, I don't think it's much different than traffic of other types when the x36 just scans past it while other radios I have hear the traffic.

In conventional, the radio pretty much just needs to "see" and decode the signal on that frequency. It doesn't care much about the metadata on the signal having to match anything - it just processes the voice that it can and you hear it.

In other modes, the radio is spending more time trying to decode the data about the voice and typically trying to match what you have programmed. I think this is why you hear less.

This is similar to - for example - trunked P25. In trunking systems, the control channel has to be decoded successfully and then checked against your programming to determine if you want to listen to the active talkgroups. If the CC isn't decoded properly, there's no chance you'll match anything. However, if you program the P25 voice frequencies directly (at least for Phase 1 systems), you'll likely hear alot more than you do using the CC - at least for weak and/or distant systems.

If we had an options to monitor Phase 2 P25 voice frequencies, I'm better you'd hear alot more of that also.

Using Color Codes doesn't always work though. I have an EMS dispatch on 451.8875 and 451.9875. I also have a warehouse using the same frequencies. Both users have differing Color Codes. On the warehouse I have their respective Color Codes programmed, however, the EMS dispatch talk groups still show up under the warehouse.

I understand what you're saying about co channel interference, but, some of these frequencies so far apart you would think this would be impossible. As in the example I used earlier, the grocery warehouse TGID showing up under the NJ TRBO HAM network. The HAM is in the 440's and the other in the 460's. Different Color Codes too. This only happens using One Frequency systems.

I do agree, having so many private users on the same frequencies makes really hard to figure out who is who. Color Codes were my only answer to this.

sibbley said:

I do agree, having so many private users on the same frequencies makes really hard to figure out who is who. Color Codes were my only answer to this.

Click to expand...

FWIW - I probably should have used "CC" in my last post -- in this case, I mean "control channel" not "color code".

However ....

Agree --

I really think we need a "not" function for programming.....

For example - I have multiple users on a common frequency using different color codes. Once I figure out the chatty users and their color code, I need the ability to program all other color codes except that one (filter out chatty and find who is using the other 14-15 color codes). I think it's possible but not simple (requires lots of duplicate programming).

Are you putting all of the frequencies into one favorites list to scan?
That might be why i am not having these issues.
For each agency, department, what ever it may be, i put them into their own favorites list.
I have a shopping mall not far from me with 1 DMR channel for security. I have them as their own favorites list, with one channel and one TG.
Even for the ham stuff i want to scan, each Frequency is set into its own group to monitor. This allows me a lot more control of what i can lock out and hold onto.

at one time i tried putting 6-10 individual frequencys into a group and it got annoying with all the different TG.

All of this is on my 436.

troymail said:

In other modes, the radio is spending more time trying to decode the data about the voice and typically trying to match what you have programmed. I think this is why you hear less.

Click to expand...

Yes, and in the other modes you can't adjust the Digital Waiting Time. In conventional I've found it you hear more if DWT is set to 200ms.

Good point with the 2nd radio.

sibbley said:

Yes, I saw that in your earlier post. The question is why? Is it just you and me having this issue?

Click to expand...

I see the same with P25 one freq. More heard on conv and sdrsharp than p25 single freq...

IAmSixNine said:

Are you putting all of the frequencies into one favorites list to scan?
That might be why i am not having these issues.
For each agency, department, what ever it may be, i put them into their own favorites list.
I have a shopping mall not far from me with 1 DMR channel for security. I have them as their own favorites list, with one channel and one TG.
Even for the ham stuff i want to scan, each Frequency is set into its own group to monitor. This allows me a lot more control of what i can lock out and hold onto.

at one time i tried putting 6-10 individual frequencys into a group and it got annoying with all the different TG.

All of this is on my 436.

Click to expand...

Yes, I have about 27 systems in 1 favorites list. Some of those systems have several frequencies, some have only 1 frequency. I department for each system. I have some of the One Frequency systems programmed with 1 site for each frequency, and some programmed with several frequencies under 1 site. Color Codes set for all, no Color Code search. No quick keys for sites, only for system/department.

I have conventional programmed the same way. 1 Favorite, broken down by systems/departments.

I'll have to break everything down into their own favorites and give that a try. I always thought that would scan/search slower.

It will scan/search slower but you may get more accurate results.
I have each of my Fav List to hold for 2 seconds, giving it time to properly decode any traffic.

IAmSixNine said:

It will scan/search slower but you may get more accurate results.
I have each of my Fav List to hold for 2 seconds, giving it time to properly decode any traffic.

Click to expand...

I tried each DMR user in their own favorite on my 436 list while having the One Frequency system favorite set on my 536. I was hearing less having them in their own favorite. My hold is set at zero, I didn't try it set to hold for any other length of time. Although, when I did have comms, I did not notice the talk group issue I described earlier.