Nxdn used for railroad?

BlueMoon2 · Jan 17, 2017

Has anyone in Virginia heard nxdn being used on railroad frequencies yet? Digital frequency search.com shows csx, Norfolk southern and buckingham branch railroads are all licensed for it in Albemarle county. Just wondered if anybody had heard it being used yet.

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Ghstwolf62 · Jan 17, 2017

I've noticed a number of such licenses out here too but no Nexedge traffic at all. I've been hearing for years they are switching but haven't seen it much. Supposedly metro areas have it more than the rest of the country.

I've heard in the last year there is resistance to that plan and even that some are going their own way but going Mototrbo or staying as is.

Don't really follow rail that much so don't know more. Very uninteresting to me. I get close call hits on them here and nothing really. Lots of incidents go on but its never put out on the radio for whatever reason.

Hearing "Clear to mile marker 67" and the like as the extent is rather boring.

hdralleiii · Jan 22, 2017

BlueMoon2 said:
Has anyone in Virginia heard nxdn being used on railroad frequencies yet? Digital frequency search.com shows csx, Norfolk southern and buckingham branch railroads are all licensed for it in Albemarle county. Just wondered if anybody had heard it being used yet.

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All three of these railroads are licensed but have not begun using any NXDN in VA yet. NS and CSX are however using it sparingly in other parts of their systems, mainly in yards and police use. Highly unlikely the road channels will go to NXDN any time in the foreseeable future.

troymail · Jan 22, 2017

I have CSX using NXDN in Maryland - at least in the Baltimore area - but generally, best I can tell, only in the yards - not on the road.

Also just back from a trip through Virginia and North Carolina -- not a peep on RR NXDN... but it could have been I just wasn't close enough and/or they were active during my travels through various areas.

KI4SXZ · Jan 22, 2017

Like someone else said, i'm sure it will become more common for yard operations. But when it comes to over the road, i cant see it becoming too common because there are just too many other users of the rails for it to be practical.
Just think, i know in the small section of csx track i live on, the known users are NS, Amtrak and VRE. They would all have to outfit their fleets to handle that system. So over the road will most likely stay vhf for a long time.

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W4UVV · Jan 22, 2017

All CSX and NS Va. 160-161mhz. licenses

BlueMoon2 said:
Has anyone in Virginia heard nxdn being used on railroad frequencies yet? Digital frequency search.com shows csx, Norfolk southern and buckingham branch railroads are all licensed for it in Albemarle county. Just wondered if anybody had heard it being used yet.

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--------------------------------

FYI all Virginia CSX and NS 160-161mhz. licenses now additionally support the NXDN emission mode. Over the past few years either via a new or modified existing license, all their licenses now support both analog/NXDN.

A licensee does not spend monies to request new or modified licenses for a new emission mode (NXDN) without intending to use it at some time in the future. The capability for both RRs to switch over to NXDN now exists and could happen at anytime by either railroad. Don't bet that NXDN will never happen and RR comms will remain analog forever especially in these times of increased threats from terrorists to the US.

NXDN has been prototype tested at the NS repair facility in Roanoke for the past 6+ years. So it is not exactly a brand new technology to NS.

The NS coal loading pier facility in Norfolk has been using NXDN for approximately 2 years.

John
W4UVV

KI4SXZ · Jan 22, 2017

Last i knew, the NXDN could only be used through repeaters because of the handhelds not being able to split the frequency between each other in simplex. And since it had to go through repeaters, individual radios would have to be programed for each tower it needed. Which means a unit wouldn't be able to go anywhere where a repeater wouldn't be without reaching a blackout zone. So it wont be tomorrow that they switch, but as technology changes, it may happen in the future.
In reality, the most you really hear on a rr road freq is the unit clearing benchmark locations. Giving thruly a headups type warning to units in the area. Tracking trains and company uses can be accomplished easier with other techs like NXDN and sat comms.

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kayn1n32008 · Jan 22, 2017

KI4SXZ said:
Last i knew, the NXDN could only be used through repeaters because of the handhelds not being able to split the frequency between each other in simplex.

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NXDN works just fine on simplex. A friend of mine and I use NXDN in simplex mode on 2m ham frequencies fairly regularly.

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KI4SXZ · Jan 23, 2017

I'll take tour word for it. Im just basing it off the manufacturer specs. But they may be old. Thanks.

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kayn1n32008 · Jan 23, 2017

KI4SXZ said:
I'll take tour word for it. Im just basing it off the manufacturer specs. But they may be old. Thanks.

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You may be thinking of DMR, however DMR has always been able to be used on simplex, but only one slot. That said, some radio manufacturers can utilize both slots on simplex now.

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kb4cvn · Jan 23, 2017

Friends of mine in Montana have been reporting various Railroads there migrated to NXDN a few years ago. If you call a Dispatcher in analog, they will answer in analog (pass throughs, military trains, etc.) but 100% of their normal comms are digital.

Ghstwolf62 · Jan 23, 2017

Mark it sounds like Motorola's P25 radios like XTS 5000 which can have a "Both" selection and allow you to respond to the mode received. Analog comes in unit can transmit back in analog and if digital comes in unit responds in digital. I may be wrong but I seem to remember that when reading about programing those radios.

mikewazowski · Jan 23, 2017

Ghstwolf62 said:
Mark it sounds like Motorola's P25 radios like XTS 5000 which can have a "Both" selection and allow you to respond to the mode received. Analog comes in unit can transmit back in analog and if digital comes in unit responds in digital. I may be wrong but I seem to remember that when reading about programing those radios.

While a Motorola radio can have mixed mode receive, digital or analog transmit is slaved to the channel and cannot be changed. If your channel is digital and somebody is transmitting analog, you can listen but your response will be digital.

kb4cvn · Jan 23, 2017

Ghstwolf62 said:
Mark it sounds like Motorola's P25 radios like XTS 5000 which can have a "Both" selection and allow you to respond to the mode received. Analog comes in unit can transmit back in analog and if digital comes in unit responds in digital. I may be wrong but I seem to remember that when reading about programing those radios.

Can't speak about any other railroads in Montana, but Montana RailLink is using Kenwood exclusively. My source is a Conductor for them.

kk6rq · Jan 24, 2017

MikeOxlong said:
While a Motorola radio can have mixed mode receive, digital or analog transmit is slaved to the channel and cannot be changed. If your channel is digital and somebody is transmitting analog, you can listen but your response will be digital.

He's correct EXCEPT for one thing I just learned a few weeks ago-- The Railroad Astro Spectra (and one would assume any more recent models) actually have a D/A switch right on the front to switch TX.
Took a look at the brochure. Wish their other P25 radios did that (it would sure save on channel slots).

AA6IO · Jan 24, 2017

NXDN been used for Blue Line, Gold Line, Red Line, and Downtown Line Metro Rail for a while now in Los Angeles. Also used for Metro Rail Maint. All on high VHF conventional NXDN. Very active channels and the TRX-1 and 2 decode them excellently with great audio. Of course, can also monitor using tapped scanner or SDR fed thru DSDPlus.

Ghstwolf62 · Jan 28, 2017

MikeOxlong said:
While a Motorola radio can have mixed mode receive, digital or analog transmit is slaved to the channel and cannot be changed. If your channel is digital and somebody is transmitting analog, you can listen but your response will be digital.

Ah okay thanks. I was mistaken then.

BlueMoon2 · Feb 2, 2017

Thanks to all for the good responses.

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radioman2001 · Feb 2, 2017

Quote"A licensee does not spend monies to request new or modified licenses for a new emission mode (NXDN) without intending to use it at some time in the future.

Not totally true, our RR got fooled into PAYING for NXDN license upgrades when they are no cost from the FCC. We have no intention of going NXDN anytime in the next 10 years for other than maybe some support services. This is the general concensus from all the Class 1 railroads, and you may see it used in yards as there was a big push by the AAR to license anything not RTC for NXDN only. We got 18 pairs, which are totally useless since they are way too close to our existing carrier squelch Rail Traffic Controller channels.

Nxdn used for railroad?

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