Standardized Interop / Mobe IA Radio Zone

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BlueDevil

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For those of you in Washington State I am looking for your feedback and input.

I am in the process of putting together a proposed standardized VHF High Band Interoperability / Mobe IA (Initial Attack) Radio Zone for all Fire Agencies in the State. Obviously it wouldn't be mandatory but strongly suggested to program in all appropriate radios.

As a COMT and acting COML on a Type 3 Interagency IMT here in Washington one of the most common situations I come across when I arrive on an incident is that all resources on the entire incident are operating off of the same channel, usually REDNET.

It may not change anything but if everyone had a standardized Interop/Mobe IA Radio Zone then at least they would have the option to switch zones and start assigning tactical channels to Divisions or Groups. This would free up a channel (Simplex or Duplex) to be used a a Command Channel. It would also include the 2 WA DNR Air to Ground Channels for Air Ops as well as AirGuard for emergencies.

So far my proposed radio zone includes the VTAC Repeater/Duplex Channels, VTAC Tactical/Simplex Channels, OSCCR, REDNET, DNR Common, DNR Tac Channels, DNR Air to Ground Channels, and AirGuard.

What say you?
 

ecps92

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DHS has done most of the work for you
google "NIFOG Interop Worksheet" - nice excel spreadsheet

However, it is not just One Interop Zone

You might reach out to NIFC and see what they recommend as well

For those of you in Washington State I am looking for your feedback and input.

I am in the process of putting together a proposed standardized VHF High Band Interoperability / Mobe IA (Initial Attack) Radio Zone for all Fire Agencies in the State. Obviously it wouldn't be mandatory but strongly suggested to program in all appropriate radios.

As a COMT and acting COML on a Type 3 Interagency IMT here in Washington one of the most common situations I come across when I arrive on an incident is that all resources on the entire incident are operating off of the same channel, usually REDNET.

It may not change anything but if everyone had a standardized Interop/Mobe IA Radio Zone then at least they would have the option to switch zones and start assigning tactical channels to Divisions or Groups. This would free up a channel (Simplex or Duplex) to be used a a Command Channel. It would also include the 2 WA DNR Air to Ground Channels for Air Ops as well as AirGuard for emergencies.

So far my proposed radio zone includes the VTAC Repeater/Duplex Channels, VTAC Tactical/Simplex Channels, OSCCR, REDNET, DNR Common, DNR Tac Channels, DNR Air to Ground Channels, and AirGuard.

What say you?
 

BlueDevil

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I think that in order for this to happen and have any success at all the channels will have to be limited to a single zone. A lot of agencies are already reaching their channel capacity in their radios so having multiple zones and even more channels may cause agencies to refrain from implementing it. The whole purpose of the zone would be to give the on scene resources the ability to communicate on common interoperability channels in the operating period(s) prior to an Incident Management Teams arrival and implementation of a specific Communications Plan. NIFC is a great resource but they assign frequencies to incidents based on several variables but mostly on proximity to other incidents. This means the frequency assignments would change from week to week and incident to incident. This Group or Zone should be setup with frequencies for use state/nation wide.
 

ecps92

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Your limiting youself here and going to mix apples and oranges. [Disciplines]
VCall and VTACS take 13 channels [Zone Q]
VFire, VMED and VLAW take 11 channels [Zone R]
VFederal Response Interop take 10 channels [Zone S]
VFederal LE Interop take 10 channels [Zone T] P25 Mix
VFederal LE Interop take 10 channels [Zone T1] Analog
VFederal LE Interop take 10 channels [Zone T2] P25
Zone V = Maritime [10 channels]
Zone W = NWS [9 channels]

There is no way to put a Local/State/Fed interop into one true Zone

NIFC altho for Wildfire Ops do assign channels as needed, there are plenty of Pre-Assigned channels and they are the BEST to chat with relative to proper naming conventions, PL, No PL, P25 etc

Why re-invent a wheel when those guys do it 24/7/365

I think that in order for this to happen and have any success at all the channels will have to be limited to a single zone. A lot of agencies are already reaching their channel capacity in their radios so having multiple zones and even more channels may cause agencies to refrain from implementing it. The whole purpose of the zone would be to give the on scene resources the ability to communicate on common interoperability channels in the operating period(s) prior to an Incident Management Teams arrival and implementation of a specific Communications Plan. NIFC is a great resource but they assign frequencies to incidents based on several variables but mostly on proximity to other incidents. This means the frequency assignments would change from week to week and incident to incident. This Group or Zone should be setup with frequencies for use state/nation wide.
 

Wilrobnson

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Aside from the Commie hysteria, I'll add my $0.02 into the mix. K-I-S-S.

VCall
V-Tacs1-4
LERN
OSCR
NLEC
DNR Common
DNR Tac 1 and 2
REDNET
Oregon OPEN (or rename NLEC as NLEC/OPEN)
Marine-16
Marine-xx (I like 68 or 72- I've had boaters on landlocked lakes who needed to be yelled at)

That leaves one for 16-ch banks. I would probably use Air Guard, but I'm unfamiliar with ops in your area.

Keep in mind you'd probably have others using their own stuff. I had a wildland fire where all the contractors (i.e. bucket drops and scoops, dozers and logs) were using MURS...Think of crew and travel channels, home tactical channels, etc.

Further investment can result in a LOGISTICS bank, a PLANS bank, CAMP/RAMP/WTF banks, etc...and probably remain unused. I've been to incidents where the documentation unit had 2 channels...but no radios assigned to them.

When I think of interops, I think of this- InterceptRadio.com Forums • View topic - Who needs interoperability...

What we need is statewide/nationwide MANDATORY interops/ICS training, for EVERYONE. Or Boston FD dispatchers to tell field units "No, I won't patch you. Switch to Zone 7, Channel 9 if you want to talk".

/rant
/elitism

What was my point again? Oh yeah, send me a PM.
 

BlueDevil

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Aside from the Commie hysteria, I'll add my $0.02 into the mix. K-I-S-S.

VCall
V-Tacs1-4
LERN
OSCR
NLEC
DNR Common
DNR Tac 1 and 2
REDNET
Oregon OPEN (or rename NLEC as NLEC/OPEN)
Marine-16
Marine-xx (I like 68 or 72- I've had boaters on landlocked lakes who needed to be yelled at)

That leaves one for 16-ch banks. I would probably use Air Guard, but I'm unfamiliar with ops in your area.

Keep in mind you'd probably have others using their own stuff. I had a wildland fire where all the contractors (i.e. bucket drops and scoops, dozers and logs) were using MURS...Think of crew and travel channels, home tactical channels, etc.

Further investment can result in a LOGISTICS bank, a PLANS bank, CAMP/RAMP/WTF banks, etc...and probably remain unused. I've been to incidents where the documentation unit had 2 channels...but no radios assigned to them.

When I think of interops, I think of this- InterceptRadio.com Forums • View topic - Who needs interoperability...

What we need is statewide/nationwide MANDATORY interops/ICS training, for EVERYONE. Or Boston FD dispatchers to tell field units "No, I won't patch you. Switch to Zone 7, Channel 9 if you want to talk".

/rant
/elitism

What was my point again? Oh yeah, send me a PM.



This has probably been the most useful reply so far. The zone would be designed for primarily wildfire incidents. And in particular the first couple operating periods where the Initial Attack, Mutual Aid, and Mobilization Strike Teams show up to the incident and start to engage before the Incident Management Team has arrived. A lot of times there is a 12-24hr period from when the fire or incident first starts to when the Incident Management Teams arrives. I would like to create a standardized zone for that in-between period when there are way more resources on scene than can run on a single simplex tactical channel.
 

kd7kdc

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I agree, Will came up with a great reply to your question minus the snarkyness aimed at me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

KevinC

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I deleted off-topic posts. This included some collateral damage so I'm sorry if your post contained some useful information also.
 

jrw14493

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Aside from the Commie hysteria, I'll add my $0.02 into the mix. K-I-S-S.

VCall
V-Tacs1-4
LERN
OSCR
NLEC
DNR Common
DNR Tac 1 and 2
REDNET
Oregon OPEN (or rename NLEC as NLEC/OPEN)
Marine-16
Marine-xx (I like 68 or 72- I've had boaters on landlocked lakes who needed to be yelled at)

That leaves one for 16-ch banks. I would probably use Air Guard, but I'm unfamiliar with ops in your area.

Keep in mind you'd probably have others using their own stuff. I had a wildland fire where all the contractors (i.e. bucket drops and scoops, dozers and logs) were using MURS...Think of crew and travel channels, home tactical channels, etc.

Further investment can result in a LOGISTICS bank, a PLANS bank, CAMP/RAMP/WTF banks, etc...and probably remain unused. I've been to incidents where the documentation unit had 2 channels...but no radios assigned to them.

When I think of interops, I think of this- InterceptRadio.com Forums • View topic - Who needs interoperability...

What we need is statewide/nationwide MANDATORY interops/ICS training, for EVERYONE. Or Boston FD dispatchers to tell field units "No, I won't patch you. Switch to Zone 7, Channel 9 if you want to talk".

/rant
/elitism

What was my point again? Oh yeah, send me a PM.

Ditto. Considering a couple things I've noticed this fire season:

1. Increased use of air resources on the IA. One of the DNR A2G or one of the federal A2G channels I think would be necessary.

2. Law Enforcement from all groups (State, City, County, Federal) are a lot more involved in the IA doing evacuation. Therefore, LERN and OSCCR are good choices.

Beyond those observations, Wil listed the rest of them. DNR Common and REDNET are absolute necessities.
 

Wilrobnson

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Aside VCall
V-Tacs1-4
LERN
OSCR
NLEC
DNR Common
DNR Tac 1 and 2
REDNET
Oregon OPEN (or rename NLEC as NLEC/OPEN)
Marine-16
Marine-xx (I like 68 or 72- I've had boaters on landlocked lakes who needed to be yelled at)

That leaves one for 16-ch banks. I would probably use Air Guard, but I'm unfamiliar with ops in your area.

Then try this:

1- VCALL10
2- VTAC 11
3- VTAC 12
4- VTAC 13
5- VTAC 14
6- WA LERN
7- WA OSCR
8- VLAW31/NLEC/OR OPEN (Maybe VLAW31/OPEN for the alpha tag?)
9- DNR COMMON
10- DNR TAC1
11- DNR TAC2
12- REDNET
13- (insert Air-to-Ground here)
14- ID DPS-1 or maybe IDL DIRECT-1?
15- AIR GUARD
16- MARINE16 (Alternatively, MARINE EMER?)

You're getting both bordering states (ID and OR) there, losing Marine-68 or 72, although, in theory, they're supposed to be monitoring 16 anyhow (that's why I've put others in in the past, since rec boaters aren't known for strict obedience to rules).

Maybe a rearrangement would be good as well, start with REDNET, then LERN and on down. Pull the VTACs into use as an incident grows and divisions need freqs.

This goes against my preferred lineup where the primary is also the last in the bank for emergency situations (turn the dial either way to the stops), but ya gotta make do with what you have.
 

BlueDevil

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The objective behind this Interop / Move IA Zone would be to give the Initial Attack and the incoming Strike Teams in the first operational period(s) a zone to work off of that allows for expansion and growth as the incident expands and grows. The Local Command units along with incoming Overhead personnel often times have 2 or more radios with them in which they can use the other radio(s) to communicate with Local Dispatch Centers and/or Law Enforcement. My experience has shown that these channels are the most commonly used channels during Initial Attack and even after the IMT has implemented a Communications Plan. I included the NIFOG VTAC33 and VTAC36 portable repeater frequency pairs in the zone because those are the most commonly use Portable Repeaters due the the large frequency split/separation. This would allow for rapid deployment of a Portable Repeater while allowing the units on scene to stay within the same zone.

This is the DRAFT channel lineup that I was thinking about.

1) VTAC33 - Portable CMD Repeater
2) VTAC36 - Portable CMD Repeater
3) DNR Common - Travel/Tactical
4) VCALL10 - Travel/Tactical
5) REDNET - Interop/Tactical
6) OSCCR - Interop/Tactical
7) BLM TAC - Interop/Tactical
8) DNR TAC1 - Interop/Tactical
9) DNR TAC2 - Interop/Tactical
10) VTAC 11 - Tactical (Needs Coordinated use if Portable Repeater has been deployed)
11) VTAC 12 - Tactical
12) VTAC 13 - Tactical
13) VTAC 14 - Tactical (Needs Coordinated use if Portable Repeater has been deployed)
14) DNR A/G1 - Air to Ground Primary
15) DNR A/G2 - Air to Ground Secondary
16) AIRGUARD - Emergency/Safety Channel
 

Wilrobnson

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If this is for the first op period and statewide, why the portable repeaters? I know many places in Washington where local resources wouldn't even know where to begin to look for one, let alone 2 (if needed). In the first 12 hours, you're not going ROSS up a repeater unless there's a local one cached.

I also know (and have worked) places where VCALL-10 was for calling in that area, and someone chatting on there would completely screw things up.

I still want a PM.
 

BlueDevil

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If this is for the first op period and statewide, why the portable repeaters? I know many places in Washington where local resources wouldn't even know where to begin to look for one, let alone 2 (if needed). In the first 12 hours, you're not going ROSS up a repeater unless there's a local one cached.

I also know (and have worked) places where VCALL-10 was for calling in that area, and someone chatting on there would completely screw things up.

I still want a PM.

I put the portable repeaters in there because some counties, especially on the east side of the state carry these or have them readily available for use during an incident. The majority of the time we never order a repeater through ROSS. Takes too long for the type of incidents that we deal with. We carry all of our own repeater and communications equipment and are self sufficient. Since most if not all of these channels are licensed for statewide use if not nationwide then there is always the possibility of running into interference. However if we put enough channels in the zone then maybe there can be a couple that are open. The idea is to at a minimum give the IA folks and first in strike teams a common zone to work out of instead of piling everyone on one channel (REDNET). Whether they use it at the time or not would be up to them.
 

BlueDevil

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It will go nowhere without the blessing of these folks. Better to involve them now, rather than later.

Washington OneNet | SIEC

I do not plan on going through that much Red Tape. I do not expect or anticipate that this will be an official Washington State Interoperability Zone. Washington OneNet / SIEC doesn't perform the radio programing, at least not in this area. My thought would be to make it an unofficial/optional zone that is suggested/recommended to the local agencies. As long as folks have room available in their radios I don't see why they wouldn't want to program it.
 
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