P25 solutions?

Status
Not open for further replies.

JRush311

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 17, 2017
Messages
126
Location
Monroe, N.C.
I purchased a 396xt and quickly found its horrible for monitoring local activities
As we use p25 simulcast here
I had heard of the unications G4/G5
Do you pros think a Motorola radio would be a more feasible option?
I managed to program the uniden although the unication and Motorola
Seem much more difficult
Just trying to see what is my best solution
I really only want to monitor my local sheriff and fire
No need for 200 channels
 

CanesFan95

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
3,011
Location
FL
Yes, all the scanners are useless if it's simulcast. Is it Phase I or Phase II?
 

CanesFan95

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
3,011
Location
FL
The Unication will be your best bet, but they're not perfect. Motorolas are harder to program because you need a system key file and then there's the problem of auto-affilation (where the radio basically transmits on its own).
 

ofd8001

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
7,890
Location
Louisville, KY
The 396XT/996XTs are not very forgiving when it comes to simulcast systems. You can tinker with the Site Attenuation, P25 Decode Level and P25 Threshold and get some improvement.

The x36 series scanners are better at simulcast decoding, but are still not "perfect".

Of course where the scanner is with respect to transmitters makes all the difference in the world. Our local system is a 13 site simulcast system. There are places where I have problems with decoding multiple incoming signals (garble or no audio) and then there are places where the audio is as pristine as a "regular system radio".

My best results are with a Motorola XTS 3000 radio via eBay. Setting one of these up took a little effort. Had to get it re-flashed for the correct audio options and then get it properly programmed. It is set up to work on a "dummy" conventional system, but scans the trunked system so there is no attempt to affiliate with the system. It still isn't as good as a "regular system radio" because the first portion of a transmission may be missed since it is on that dummy system, then goes to scan the "real" system.

Back before I retired, I had the "regular system radio" and was able to compare scanners to that radio.
 

radio3353

Active Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2003
Messages
1,497
Of course where the scanner is with respect to transmitters makes all the difference in the world. Our local system is a 13 site simulcast system.

With simulcast systems, this is the bottom line. Everybody needs to get this through their head if they have a consumer scanner.
 

budevans

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,175
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
The Unication will be your best bet, but they're not perfect. Motorolas are harder to program because you need a system key file and then there's the problem of auto-affilation (where the radio basically transmits on its own).

You do not need a system key to monitor. But, you are correct with regards to Motorola's being harder or impossible to program if you don't have Motorola training.

Regarding the Unications G4/G5. They handle simulcast as well as the professional radio's (Moto's, Harris, etc..). But they aren't scanners and they also require more than a casual users knowledge to program. I know a HAM or two who've done it.
 

Project25_MASTR

Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Joined
Jun 16, 2013
Messages
4,163
Location
Texas
You do not need a system key to monitor. But, you are correct with regards to Motorola's being harder or impossible to program if you don't have Motorola training.

Regarding the Unications G4/G5. They handle simulcast as well as the professional radio's (Moto's, Harris, etc..). But they aren't scanners and they also require more than a casual users knowledge to program. I know a HAM or two who've done it.



The only issue with the G4/5 is that they don't handle site roaming well (or at all). Especially with systems that have high individual site concentrations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

CanesFan95

Active Member
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
Messages
3,011
Location
FL
But I thought in order to program trunking into a Motorola radio, you need the system key file.
 

cpetraglia

Member
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
868
Location
Fairfax, VA
Look at the Relm KNG series radios. Receive only programming and less than half the price of a Moto.
Really nice equipment. Programming is relatively easy.
 

Thunderknight

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jan 31, 2008
Messages
2,216
Location
Bletchley Park
But I thought in order to program trunking into a Motorola radio, you need the system key file.

You do. You could scan the system as a bunch of conventional channels with no key needed, but that tends to miss traffic, particularly on busy systems.
Other brands of radios, not neccisarily is a key required for trunking.

If it's phase 1, the G4/G5 is the easiest and safest way to go.
 

krokus

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Jun 9, 2006
Messages
5,959
Location
Southeastern Michigan
Do you have an objection to the Whistler scanners?

I would suggest not using a Motorola product, as they have a very limited scan list. (On top of all the controversy over programming, and non-affiliated monitoring methods.)

Sent via Tapatalk
 

W8RMH

Feed Provider Since 2012
Joined
Jan 4, 2009
Messages
8,110
Location
Grove City, OH (A Bearcat not a Buckeye)
From the reports I've seen the Whistlers are worse than the Unidens on simulcast. For simulcast Phase I Unication is the way to go. They also claim Phase II capability will be available in the future.
 

jaspence

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Mar 21, 2008
Messages
3,042
Location
Michigan
P25

I have simulcast in my area, and with patience and time setting them up, all three of my GRE radios do a very good job. Every situation is different, but very seldom does the radio do very well right out of the box.

As for the professional radios, you must not allow it to transmit in any way. If the monitored system sees an illegal radio, it can send a kill command and disable your radio. I have an XTS 3000 and EFJ5100 both programmed like an older scanner with no control channel or keys, just the voice frequencies. No, it doesn't do trunking, but for some monitoring they work very well, especially on a tac or event frequency situation.
 

ofd8001

Member
Premium Subscriber
Joined
Feb 6, 2004
Messages
7,890
Location
Louisville, KY
That's why it is so important that someone who knows what they are doing to program the radio. If it is set up incorrectly and the radio just tries to affiliate with the system, by being "on the system's control channel", bad things happen. Just like beehives have guard bees to prevent wrong colony bees from entering, the system will see that foreign radio and take protective measures for security purposes.
 

crazyboy

Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2004
Messages
793
Location
NJ
I have simulcast in my area, and with patience and time setting them up, all three of my GRE radios do a very good job. Every situation is different, but very seldom does the radio do very well right out of the box.



As for the professional radios, you must not allow it to transmit in any way. If the monitored system sees an illegal radio, it can send a kill command and disable your radio. I have an XTS 3000 and EFJ5100 both programmed like an older scanner with no control channel or keys, just the voice frequencies. No, it doesn't do trunking, but for some monitoring they work very well, especially on a tac or event frequency situation.


Even if the radio is set to not transmit it will still accept an inhibit command to its ID.
 

DeDawg

Member
Joined
Mar 26, 2017
Messages
195
Location
Kona, HI
Do the professional radios have better audio than the Uniden/Whislter scanners? Have used a BC536 and a TRX-2.

I live in a non-simulcast area. The single site I monitor has audio that is borderline impossible to understand. Now and then a voice will come in clear, mostly muddy or screeching. No settings in either radio could much alter it as far as I could tell.

The Whistler may be slightly better with less distortion. Not all that much though.
 

budevans

Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2009
Messages
2,175
Location
Cleveland, Ohio
Do the professional radios have better audio than the Uniden/Whislter scanners? Have used a BC536 and a TRX-2.
If your are talking about a Digital system (P25). Not necessarily, it depends on how the radio's are setup.

I live in a non-simulcast area. The single site I monitor has audio that is borderline impossible to understand. Now and then a voice will come in clear, mostly muddy or screeching. No settings in either radio could much alter it as far as I could tell.

Roughly eight or nine years ago when the first P25 systems went active in my county, I heard some God awful audio from radio's in the field and an occasional dispatch console. Eventually, the various issues (like what you mentioned) were resolved. Today excluding Simulcast issues, the radio traffic I monitor is very clear.

One exception would be Fire Department Respirator Masks. Depending on the make and models of radio's and masks, they can sound very muddy or distorted. The latest generation of properly setup Moto radio's and the latest generation of Respirator Masks have much improved audio, but still not crystal clear in every case.

FYI, I have three digital scanners, PSR-500, Whistler TRX-1 and a Uniden BCD436HP. The best sounding is the nine year old PSR-500. It has the largest speaker, the audio sounds like static free FM analog very natural.

Next best is the TRX-1, but it's small speaker can sound kind of twangy (for lack of a better term). The Uniden 436 has a muddy (overly bassy) sound from it's small speaker. My fix, was to get a really inexpensive set of powered PC speakers ($7 each). They made a significant difference in the audio for both the TRX-1 & BCD436HP.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top