FOIA requesting radio information..?

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Motoballa

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You know, I just got around to thinking.. Could I submit a FOIA request for talkgroup information on radio systems? My city is moving to a P25 Phase II system, and I think it would make life a lot easier if I just went in and submitted a FOIA on they radio system information, specifically the talkgroup IDs and what they correlate to. I suppose it would be a lot more fun finding it ourselfs but. Just a thought.

I've submitted tons of FOIAs on incidents, but nothing like this. Any ideas?
 

dlwtrunked

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You know, I just got around to thinking.. Could I submit a FOIA request for talkgroup information on radio systems? My city is moving to a P25 Phase II system, and I think it would make life a lot easier if I just went in and submitted a FOIA on they radio system information, specifically the talkgroup IDs and what they correlate to. I suppose it would be a lot more fun finding it ourselfs but. Just a thought.
I've submitted tons of FOIAs on incidents, but nothing like this. Any ideas?

Likely will not work. As an example, it was tried in Virginia, and the state responded such information was exempt from FOIA. And the result might just encourage encryption.
 

KK4JUG

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How much are you willing to pay and is your curiosity worth it?
 

wtp

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my guess would be...

they would send a list of frequencies, probably from this site.
and a list of everyone who is on the system.
they would have no use for a talkgroup number.
it might be handy to try and figure out who is on what talkgroup.
there are many not listed for my county and never mention anything useful to figure it out.
car 100 at murdock does nothing to say who thy are.
 

KB7MIB

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Technically, a FOIA is for federal agencies only.
At the state and local level, your state open records law would be what you would cite in your request.

John
Peoria, AZ
 

TexScan780D

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You know, I just got around to thinking.. Could I submit a FOIA request for talkgroup information on radio systems? My city is moving to a P25 Phase II system, and I think it would make life a lot easier if I just went in and submitted a FOIA on they radio system information, specifically the talkgroup IDs and what they correlate to. I suppose it would be a lot more fun finding it ourselfs but. Just a thought.

I've submitted tons of FOIAs on incidents, but nothing like this. Any ideas?

My experience in public safety trunk systems upgrading is that they just add a base number to the old system talkgroups. My local government added 40,000 to each talkgroups. I know their are new talkgroups, so my uniden 436 in discovery mode will find the new talkgroups.

By the way, I find there is a lot of fun finding new talkgroups.
 
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TexScan780D

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Technically, a FOIA is for federal agencies only.
At the state and local level, your state open records law would be what you would cite in your request.

John
Peoria, AZ


I know my local government responds to FOIA.
 

Motoballa

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Wow, appreciate the replies. I'll drive up there sometime this week or fill out something on the Citizen Action Center and ask how this specific request would go about. I'm more or less just curious how they will respond to it and if it is even possible.
 

Motoballa

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My experience in public safety trunk systems upgrading is that they just add a base number to the old system talkgroups. My local government added 40,000 to each talkgroups. I know their are new talkgroups, so my uniden 436 in discovery mode will find the new talkgroups.

By the way, I find there is a lot of fun finding new talkgroups.

I think that is quite interesting. If someone finds new talkgroups for it and I see it I'll see if I can do some math and find out if that is how they do it here. Thank ya.
 

Archie

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FOIL

See if your state has a government body that will review any FOIL denial and force compliance with it if in fact they determine that your request is valid.

NY State has no such government entity, but CT and NJ do. NY only has a state attorney who can issue a very non binding, teeth less opinion. And knowing this, the nasty folks who wrongly deny our requests basically flip you the bird knowing that you cannot afford to litigate your FOIL issue !!!
 

TexScan780D

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See if your state has a government body that will review any FOIL denial and force compliance with it if in fact they determine that your request is valid.

NY State has no such government entity, but CT and NJ do. NY only has a state attorney who can issue a very non binding, teeth less opinion. And knowing this, the nasty folks who wrongly deny our requests basically flip you the bird knowing that you cannot afford to litigate your FOIL issue !!!

My local government has a person in their legal office who handles FOIA request.
 

nd5y

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You might want to read the first couple of pages in this thread about how they filed open records request for TG info for the McLennan County system and maybe the people involved could give advice on how to do it.
 

28056

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My experience in public safety trunk systems upgrading is that they just add a base number to the old system talkgroups. My local government added 40,000 to each talkgroups. I know their are new talkgroups, so my uniden 436 in discovery mode will find the new talkgroups.

By the way, I find there is a lot of fun finding new talkgroups.



There are two cities going from old type II systems and at least one city had limited talkgroups on their system, so that would not work 100% with this. Add in the users who are coming from non-trunked systems as well.
 

Motoballa

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Likely will not work. As an example, it was tried in Virginia, and the state responded such information was exempt from FOIA. And the result might just encourage encryption.

I met with the Chief of Police for my city and he stated as far as the Police Department goes, you won't be hearing anything on the radio anymore, so might as well not even go out and get a new scanner. I have a buddy in City Council who said the Fire Department is also moving that way. 100% encrypted, no talkgroups open for my city.

Now there are 3 other cities joining it which he said will have some encrypted talkgroups, not fully. And the thing to me is they know they are on the Broadcastify app, they know they are on there and they know of my scanner page. Officers and Firefighters follow it. So, I think if they wanted to encrypt the main talkgroups then they would, but from what he is telling me its only like the Tactical, CID, etc.

So by requesting it I don't think, it would pressure them because either way, they are going to get posted.. I would think, who knows. That is just my opinion on it. :)
 

Motoballa

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You might want to read the first couple of pages in this thread about how they filed open records request for TG info for the McLennan County system and maybe the people involved could give advice on how to do it.

Thank you Thomas!
 

TexScan780D

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I met with the Chief of Police for my city and he stated as far as the Police Department goes, you won't be hearing anything on the radio anymore, so might as well not even go out and get a new scanner. I have a buddy in City Council who said the Fire Department is also moving that way. 100% encrypted, no talkgroups open for my city.

Now there are 3 other cities joining it which he said will have some encrypted talkgroups, not fully. And the thing to me is they know they are on the Broadcastify app, they know they are on there and they know of my scanner page. Officers and Firefighters follow it. So, I think if they wanted to encrypt the main talkgroups then they would, but from what he is telling me its only like the Tactical, CID, etc.

So by requesting it I don't think, it would pressure them because either way, they are going to get posted.. I would think, who knows. That is just my opinion on it. :)

Can you give us the cities names or answer through PM?
 

hiegtx

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Is there anyone in the Dallas Fort Worth area not encrypted?
Quite a few.

Dallas is almost all in the clear. Occasionally, I'll see encryption crop up on the tactical channels, sometimes on the investigative ones if there is a surveillance operation going on, but that's only a small fraction. Plano has flipped their tactical & investigative talkgroups to encrypted, but dispatch is still in the clear.

On FWRRS, Fort Worth, Grand Prairie and Arlington PD's are mostly encrypted, but all the other users, including Irving, are in the clear, with a few scattered secondary, tactical, or detective TGID's in secure mode. On the Metrocrest system, for Carrollton, Farmers Branch, Addison, & Coppell, the PD talkgroups are generally in secure mode. Garland and Mesquite are currently in the clear, but supposedly when their new system goes live, PD will be fully encrypted. Most all the other cities in the area are in the clear for the vast majority are in the clear, little or no encryption used.
 
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