Lawn and Garden Batteries: Sealed Lead Acid?

I am looking to replace the SLA battery I have in my truck to run my radio. I noticed that Wal-Mart sells Maintanence free lawn and garden batteries for tractors and things.

Is this a sealed lead acid battery? Batteries of similar size seem to cost about half as much as I bought mine from Amazon (I'm assuming shipping costs have a lot to do with that).

Has anybody used a "Lawn and Garden" battery to run a radio before?

oguruma said:

Has anybody used a "Lawn and Garden" battery to run a radio before?

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Yes, but you need to be careful.

They are not really "sealed". They have venting, all lead acid batteries do. Usually these batteries do have liquid acid in them, and that acid can/will leak. Also, they can/will outgas hydrogen, so you really need to be careful. If the battery is installed somewhere outside, as in the bed of the truck, under hood, etc. it might be OK, but I would not use one inside the cab.

A gel-cell would be a better idea. The acid is gelled, so a lower chance for leakage. They will vent if mistreated, but some are a recombining design that will do their best to keep the good stuff inside.

A gel cell type battery would probably be a safer alternative in most cases, and if used for just running a radio, might be a better solution as they are designed more for gradual power draw. The lawn/garden batteries are more of a starting design. If you are putting them in a situation where you might discharge them quite a ways and do it more than a few times, the gel cell will probably be a better investment.

As for "wal-mart" brand batteries, I've used them in some UTV's and they've worked fine. Yeah, they cost less than the big brands, and they won't last quite as long in many cases, but at half the price, they'll last nearly as long as the higher cost units.

For good sealed batteries become friends with a handi ham or wheelchair dealer most people don't keep there batteries when they are replaced so dealers recycle a metric ton of them ,my yearly battery change in my chair has backed up a repeater ,and a ton of stations including mine, 1 battery can power a 100 watt hf station for about 7 hours before needing to reduce power and will transmit QRP along time before needing recharged, after we are done with them ,no they dont use standard posts but they are not hard to adapt for vehicle use,some of these batteries new are as much as $500 ,I put 500 miles a year running the chair + radios,cameras, computers, lights,phones and then they go into radio service only. Walmart is not the plac.e to get a high cap/discharge battery, there are many online places with better prices on better batteries.look at MK batteries website every conceivable configuration of battery , there certifications and MSRP is listed

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I replace the batteries in the truck every few years, whether they are acting up or not. As such. I just want a battery that will work, and can stand to be discharged and recharged several times.

I use my mobile rig an X-Band repeater when I am camping and things.

The batteries are stored in the truck toolbox, so them venting a bit isn't an issue.


I guess my real question is: can those Lawn and Garden batteries stand to be discharged and recharged without harming them?

My gut feeling is that "lawn and garden" batteries are no better or worse for deep discharge use than an automotive starting battery (the battery you have in your car or truck). "Lawn and garden" batteries are made to start lawn and garden equipment. After the equipment is started, I think there's an expectation that an engine-drive alternator or generator on the equipment will recharge the battery.

As others have stated, deep cycle marine batteries would be better than starting batteries. Gel-cell batteries would be even better.

I've a lawn tractor battery in our mower, used it for 3 years now and it still crancks the big Hus lawn tractor.
No problem with it yet; and that's more demanding than having transceivers on it.

Starting batteries are made to be drawn down very quickly with high current, like when starting an engine. The intent is that the battery will then be re-charged back to full charge fairly quickly so that it can be used for starting again.

Deep-cycle batteries are made to drawn down slowly and very deeply, like when you are out on your boat using a trolling motor. Then they are slowly recharged back to full charge.

It all has to with the construction of the plates inside the battery.

The typical size U1 lawn and garden battery is of the VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) type. They will vent if internal pressure is high enough. They are generally of the SLI (starting lighting ignition) type and not deep cycle. Also, be aware that the terminals are reversed on the U1 vs the U1R.

Got one here in the shack to run a couple of receivers and accessories. Recharge it often but only got about a year of service out of the first one. Can't say how well it will work with a transmitter but probably not too well. Most look like they are rated by cold cranking amps which is a useless spec for your application. See if you can find an amp-hour or reserve capacity spec for the battery you want to select and figure from there if it will be adequate to run your rig.

My guess is that a deep cycle type battery would be better for your intended operation.

WA8ZTZ said:

The typical size U1 lawn and garden battery is of the VRLA (valve regulated lead acid) type. They will vent if internal pressure is high enough. They are generally of the SLI (starting lighting ignition) type and not deep cycle. Also, be aware that the terminals are reversed on the U1 vs the U1R.

Got one here in the shack to run a couple of receivers and accessories. Recharge it often but only got about a year of service out of the first one. Can't say how well it will work with a transmitter but probably not too well. Most look like they are rated by cold cranking amps which is a useless spec for your application. See if you can find an amp-hour or reserve capacity spec for the battery you want to select and figure from there if it will be adequate to run your rig.

My guess is that a deep cycle type battery would be better for your intended operation.

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+1 on all of this. L&G batteries are pretty much identical to common automotive lead-acid types except for size and capacity. And as with those they don't like to be drawn on gradually over time instead of providing a few seconds of high-amp draw for starting and then immediately get a recharge voltage put into them. Deep cycle marine would IMHO be the way to go for this...a little more money now but less later as the service life would be markedly better.

oguruma said:

I am looking to replace the SLA battery I have in my truck to run my radio. I noticed that Wal-Mart sells Maintanence free lawn and garden batteries for tractors and things.

Is this a sealed lead acid battery? Batteries of similar size seem to cost about half as much as I bought mine from Amazon (I'm assuming shipping costs have a lot to do with that).

Has anybody used a "Lawn and Garden" battery to run a radio before?

Click to expand...

Both the battery in your truck and the lawn tractor battery are for starting only and would be a poor choice for running radios

They are also NOT sealed they are in fact vented to prevent explosions

What you need for running a radio is either a deep cycle marine battery or a actual SLA battery as used on a power scooter

No Walmart I've ever been in sells SLA batteries but most DO sell deep cycle marine batteries

The sealed AGM Group 24'S that i normaly use are 85 Amp Hour versus a U-1 which typicaly are 35 Amp Hour ,now i have only been in a chair for 10 years but all of my used batteries are still in daily service, i have a special battery tray that takes 2 batteries combined ( most chairs and scooters are 24 volt) then my third battery is not connected to the chairs electrical system, i use a seperate 12 volt charger ! On that single battery I can use all my lights, computers, cameras & radios about a week before needing to recharge i have ten tri color led lightheads with steady burn each lighthead is 5000 lumen , a go pro , a canon 5 d mark III w dual remote 600 series flashes ,Mac Book pro , Samsung S2 64 gig tablet, shark openspot and either an Icom 7000 or Kenwood 710ga( using an amplified standard/horizon speaker) feeding a little Tarheels hp screw driver antenna with diamond NR 770 and a astra spectra connected to a 396XT with remote head & second amped speaker, and a iPod touch 128gb with Bluetooth speakers,I also can just connect via power pole my Kenwood 74A or my FT 1 XDR to do digital These are all supported from the single battery , I also have multiple 12 volt connectors as well as power pole bank, so this battery can handle a lot and is pretty compact because my chair is only 15 3/4" wide by 18 " deep, they are F.A.A certified for flying and do not self discharge if put on the ground, they will definately do what you want and more the ones i use for mobility are charged overnight every night no matter how much use, you can also get them in larger group series with more Amp Hours but I don't see the point unless you plan on running a serious amp drop one in a battery box in your toolbox and you would be good to go for many years?

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W9BU said:

My gut feeling is that "lawn and garden" batteries are no better or worse for deep discharge use than an automotive starting battery (the battery you have in your car or truck). "Lawn and garden" batteries are made to start lawn and garden equipment. After the equipment is started, I think there's an expectation that an engine-drive alternator or generator on the equipment will recharge the battery.

As others have stated, deep cycle marine batteries would be better than starting batteries. Gel-cell batteries would be even better.

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I agree with W9BU these batteries are really not made for what you want to do with them,you really cant take them below 11 volts are you will kill them, It would be better to use an Deep cycle battery you can take them down to three quarters of there voltage before charging them.

Personally I have had the best luck with deep cycle marine batteries. Ive killed a fair share of other batteries going below 11v although you can build a shutoff when the voltage gets below say 12.1vdc. Even then your better off just getting a deep cycle batt.

"Maintenance Free" dates back to the 70's and just refers to a conventional wet lead acid battery, with the battery cell caps replaced with recombinant caps or another design intended to make the gasses from charging recombine internally, so it doesn't need water added.

"VRLA" can refer to any sealed battery, but is properly used for AGM (absorbed glass mat) or gel batteries. In the gel battery, a thickening agent (like flour in cooking sauce) is added to the electrolyte. In AGM fiberglass mat sheets are used between the plates, like sponges, to absorb and trap the electrolyte. In both cases there is no free liquid electrolyte, so among other things it cannot leak or spill.

Two very different types. Gel is most sensitive to charging correctly, and will quickly be killed if it is not used with proper GEL charging equipment. AGM is close enough to wet lead so that it is often interchangeable, with minimal damage. But it still works best with AGM charging equipment.

SLI (car starting) batteries can be killed in as few as 6 deep charge cycles, as against 5-200 for a real deep cycle battery. All "marine" batteries are not real deep cycle batteries, some are compromises. But WalMart and Sams Club happen to be two of the cheapest sources for good batteries with good waranties, of any type. The actual makers they use vary geographically, and from contract renewal to renewal. They're generally competitive with any retail brand out there.

For replacing the battery in your truck, as a truck battery? You want an SLI battery. If you plan to use your radio in your truck for extended times, a dual purpose battery can do. Or typically a deep cycle battery can do, they've usually got enough "impulse power" to work well as starting batteries.

But if you want a battery to just use for a radio, and don't plan to keep that on a float charger or regularly charge it, you'd want a true deep cycle battery. The biggest you can afford or lift, because deep cycle batteries should be pulled down below 70% state of charge. That is, use no more than 30A on a 100AH battery. If you pull it down to 50% charge, you won't get as many charge cycles from it. It you pull it down to 20% charge...you may cut it in half again. Typically something like 50 charge cycles at full discharge, 200 at 80% discharge, 500 at 50% discharge, 2000 at 30% discharge. Way more energy can be saved and used, before the battery is used up for good, when you keep the cycles to no more than 30% discharge.

A starting (SLI) battery is intended for cycles of not more than 10% discharge, in comparison.

You may want to consider a larger battery, such as a tractor, 10 wheeler or road tractor. Some may think it's absurd to have a large battery like that to power your radios, but if that's all you're doing with them, they have a very large capacity. It takes quite a bit of cranking amps to turn over a 400-500 HP diesel engine. Check out some of your local heavy equipment dealers. They will often have older used batteries laying around that still have quite enough umph to them to power several radios and still be able to hold a decent charge. You may have to pay them whatever the core charge is for the battery, but it's cheaper than buying new. I have several of them that we use to power small 12 volt liquid transfer pumps. Keeps the load off of the truck battery and alternator. And they can recharge overnight with something as small as a trickle charger. Or you could even install a solar charger on them to keep them at their peak charge when not in use.

MF vs Gel vs AGM - clarifications

As mentioned above, the "MF", or maintenance free lawn and garden battery is a flooded wet-cell "SLI", or Starter-Lights-Igniton battery. Draw no more than 10% of it's Ah capacity rating for longest cycle life.

Maintenance Free / MF
It *appears* to be a "sealed" battery, but it is not. Tightly sealed and a wet-flooded with no easily removable caps? Yes.

What it was designed for:
The idea was that since most consumers don't take regular care of their flooded wet-cell water levels, they put additional electrolyte in the cells, and tightly sealed them in the *hopes* that the consumer could nurse them without any care through 3 to 4 years.

Savvy consumers either bought regular flooded cells and maintained them well, or if presented with an MF battery, pulled the tops and maintened them even better than normal.

Gel vs AGM
To this day, confusion continues.

GEL: Truly sealed. Plates are separated with a jelly-like substance of electrolyte. 14.1v maximum charge voltage. 10% or 0.1C max charge current. Easily abused - more below...

AGM: Truly sealed. Plates are separated to the naked eye with what appears like a paper-towl saturated with electrolyte. Appears dry to the eye if opened. Closer plate spacing than gel provides lower internal resistance. 14.4 to 14.7v maximum charge voltage. 25% or 0.25C maximum charge current (unless specialty types like pure lead Optima or Odyssey).

Charger manufacturers:
Due to the decades of confusion between Gel and AGM, many charger manufacturers realize that the consumer doesn't know or care and wants convenience with a single charge level for both.

Hence, many of todays charger use a single voltage for BOTH gel and agm, using the higher voltage of agm to accommodate both types without having the consumer having to make a decision.

The problem is that a gel, if treated to an agm type charging voltage and current, will quickly degrade. Voids in the gel appear close to the plates reducing overall capacity. High amounts of gassing tends to bulge gels subjected to agm treatment.

Since the consumer values convenience over knowledge, gels are replaced more quickly since the "charger says it's ok for gels and agm's!" It is so bad that even many charger manufacturers don't know or don't care. Or perhaps they DO know.

TRASH:
There are a lot of videos showing diy'ers popping the tops off agm's and "watering them" since they appear dry to the eye. Unfortunately, the broken seal exposes the plates to oxygen, and then watering them changes them from a sealed agm to a poorly performing flooded!

Hence, what used to be a max charge rate of 0.25C for an agm has now dropped to the more typical 10% or 0.1C rate for a flooded. Not knowing this, the trash batteries immediately bubble over.