Hardline Connector, N or UHF?

Hello.

I'm getting a Diamond 70cm antenna that comes with either N or UHF female connector. I'll be using about 80' Andrew Heliax 1/2" coax. Would PL-259 connector work better than N on the 1/2" hardline? Would you go with N or UHF connector option?

Is there a retailer that would not only sell me the cable but also install the connectors for me on the hardline?

I'm just wondering, is there a difference between N and DIN connector?

I'd appreciate your feedback.

I cannot answer you question about hard-line connectors, as I have never used them. However, a DIN connector is NOT a coaxial connector. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector.

Not knowing your reason for using hard-line, I would think the N-connector would be best for higher frequencies.

I prefer N since it's the most universal in terms of it has the most options available for buying the right one for cable size, most available options for things like bulkhead fittings and wallplates as well as items like surge arrestors and such. It also helps that I probably run more commercial gear than amateur/enthusiast equipment.

I prefer N connectors all day but that's my 2¢

Also to answer your other question TESSCO will do termination but I have an account with them and that's all who I use. Different people will have different results from TESSCO in terms of list pricing.

There are a bunch of websites I have found that just resell from TESSCO and will do termination. The Antenna Farm comes to mind.

I definitely think it's more worth your money to buy the cable, buy the connectors (buy a little extra of each) and buy the tools needed to terminate your own connections. YouTube is loaded with videos on how to do it. Worth the time and money to learn and practice.

N connectors are better by far for UHF work.. If you're going full bore with Heliax, then you might as well continue with the better connectors. They have slightly lower loss and a rubber gasket to help the seal.

In the photo below, the connector on the left is an N. Note the rubber seal at the bottom. (Sorry, It's kind of blurry. I just took a quickie on top of my desk )

The1/2 inch Heliax connectors aren't really that hard to install. There are how-to videos on YouTube.

ab5r said:

I cannot answer you question about hard-line connectors, as I have never used them. However, a DIN connector is NOT a coaxial connector. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector.

Click to expand...

Wrong DIN connector:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7/16_DIN_connector

ab5r said:

I cannot answer you question about hard-line connectors, as I have never used them. However, a DIN connector is NOT a coaxial connector. See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIN_connector.

Not knowing your reason for using hard-line, I would think the N-connector would be best for higher frequencies.

Click to expand...

7-16 DIN Coaxial connectors on common on commercial antennas, especially on higher frequencies. Standard in the cellular industry. Low PIM, high power handling, proper impedance, etc.

Unheard of in the amateur community, they just don't seem to have caught on.

ASAD said:

Hello.

I'm getting a Diamond 70cm antenna that comes with either N or UHF female connector. I'll be using about 80' Andrew Heliax 1/2" coax. Would PL-259 connector work better than N on the 1/2" hardline? Would you go with N or UHF connector option?

Click to expand...

Always go with N connectors whenever you can. Couple of reasons:
- No impedance "bump". UHF connectors don't hold characteristic impedance, and they'll always show a bit of a bump on a sweep test.
- UHF connectors are not very good performers at higher frequencies. The UHF term was used a long time ago when VHF was consider "Ultra High".
- N connectors are designed to be water resistant when installed properly. UHF connectors are not. You still need proper weatherproofing of your connectors.

ASAD said:

Is there a retailer that would not only sell me the cable but also install the connectors for me on the hardline?

Click to expand...

There are plenty that will do this. While installing the connectors isn't difficult, it does require some skill, knowledge and some large wrenches. If you don't plan on installing a lot of these, the specific tool kits for doing it are overkill. You can use standard hand tools, but it takes some practice.
The Antenna Farm will make custom cables for you up to 7/8" Heliax: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/coaxial-cable-342/custom-made-cable-assemblies-344/
It'll give you options regarding cable type, cable length, connector type, etc.
Get the heat shrink put on each end. It costs a bit more, but helps with weather proofing and strain relief.

ASAD said:

I'm just wondering, is there a difference between N and DIN connector?

I'd appreciate your feedback.

Click to expand...

Yes, other than the obvious design/size differences:
The more common 7-16 DIN connectors will handle more power, better PIM specs, cost more, etc.
Unless you are doing higher power, higher frequency stuff, you probably don't need DIN connectors. The N connectors work just fine for average amateur/GMRS type uses.
While DIN connectors are nice, they will cost quite a bit more.
There are other size DIN coaxial connectors, but not very common yet, even on the commercial side.
Buying into the DIN connector world probably isn't good financial sense and it won't benefit you enough. Also, it's going to lock you in to specific antennas, connectors, adapters, etc. N's are much more universal for what you are doing.

Hi ASAD
.
We use 7-16DIN connectors and their relatives for just about everything I do... but they are hardly seen outside commercial and government interests. They have a much nicer profile at high frequencies when, as Mmckenna said, they are 'swept' on system analyz'rs. But for practical purposes, you will do just fine at 70cm using the N-Connectors.
.
UHF to N adapters (and visa versa) are common- if the need ever should arise... DIN to UHF- or N- is not so easy to find, and the ones I have (actually the one of each I have) were quite expensive little buggers.
.
.
................CF

mmckenna said:

Unheard of in the amateur community, they just don't seem to have caught on.

Click to expand...

Not quite. Sold a pile of DIN jumpers to some EME guys at the Hamvention a few years back. Thought I would end up taking the bunch home until the EME guys spotted them and they sold pretty quick after that.

MikeOxlong said:

Not quite. Sold a pile of DIN jumpers to some EME guys at the Hamvention a few years back. Thought I would end up taking the bunch home until the EME guys spotted them and they sold pretty quick after that.

Click to expand...

That's good to hear. Around here no one has ever heard of them. See above post about the multi-pin DIN audio connectors. I usually get blank stares from the amateur radio operators I know when I mention them. The few times I do see them mentioned they are often erroneously called 7/16" DIN…. I keep an old one in my office to show those that have never heard of them.

They are starting to show up as the cellular companies start replacing the long coaxial runs with remote radio heads.
I use them on our 800MHz repeater antennas, combiners, TTA's, etc.

Back when 5 pin DIN connectors on keyboards were being phased out for PS2 connectors I went to radio shack to get an adapter. The cheerful female clerk wanted to know if she could help me. so I told her I was looking for a PS2 to 5 pin DIN keyboard adapter.
She lead me to the music instrument section, pointed the to electronic keyboards and said "here they are."

Never connect Heliax larger than 1/4" directly to an antenna, use a flexible jumper from the Heliax to the antenna like RG-213 or RG-214, etc. I prefer terminating the Heliax with a female N connector so a simple male to male jumper will work.

Its not a big deal if you end up with a male N on the cable as a double female N adapter has virtually no loss at the frequencies you are using.
prcguy

I like the RFS SCF connectors, do you guys have other preferences?
Any thoughts on LMR400 vs LMR400-UF for jumpers?

speedway_navigator said:

I like the RFS SCF connectors, do you guys have other preferences?
Any thoughts on LMR400 vs LMR400-UF for jumpers?

Click to expand...

LMR has some known PIM issues that can develop over time in full duplex environments. Some will use it, some will not.

mmckenna said:

Always go with N connectors whenever you can. Couple of reasons:
- No impedance "bump". UHF connectors don't hold characteristic impedance, and they'll always show a bit of a bump on a sweep test.
- UHF connectors are not very good performers at higher frequencies. The UHF term was used a long time ago when VHF was consider "Ultra High".
- N connectors are designed to be water resistant when installed properly. UHF connectors are not. You still need proper weatherproofing of your connectors.



There are plenty that will do this. While installing the connectors isn't difficult, it does require some skill, knowledge and some large wrenches. If you don't plan on installing a lot of these, the specific tool kits for doing it are overkill. You can use standard hand tools, but it takes some practice.
The Antenna Farm will make custom cables for you up to 7/8" Heliax: http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/coaxial-cable-342/custom-made-cable-assemblies-344/
It'll give you options regarding cable type, cable length, connector type, etc.
Get the heat shrink put on each end. It costs a bit more, but helps with weather proofing and strain relief.




Yes, other than the obvious design/size differences:
The more common 7-16 DIN connectors will handle more power, better PIM specs, cost more, etc.
Unless you are doing higher power, higher frequency stuff, you probably don't need DIN connectors. The N connectors work just fine for average amateur/GMRS type uses.
While DIN connectors are nice, they will cost quite a bit more.
There are other size DIN coaxial connectors, but not very common yet, even on the commercial side.
Buying into the DIN connector world probably isn't good financial sense and it won't benefit you enough. Also, it's going to lock you in to specific antennas, connectors, adapters, etc. N's are much more universal for what you are doing.

Click to expand...

I don't see 7/16" DIN too often. Really only on trunking at sites built this century. Most everything I deal with on a daily basis is N.

mmckenna said:

They are starting to show up as the cellular companies start replacing the long coaxial runs with remote radio heads.

I use them on our 800MHz repeater antennas, combiners, TTA's, etc.

Click to expand...

We've been using them since 2001 when we rolled out GSM. All the base stations came with them.
The newer equipment is using mini-DIN now. Hard to fit 12 full size DIN connectors on the bottom of an antenna ,

MikeOxlong said:

We've been using them since 2001 when we rolled out GSM. All the base stations came with them.
The newer equipment is using mini-DIN now. Hard to fit 12 full size DIN connectors on the bottom of an antenna ,

Click to expand...

4.3-10 DIN. I haven't seen any of those in the wild yet. The older cellular stuff we have around work is all 7-16, being swapped out to RRU's on the top of the tower.

I've got a transmit combiner for my trunked system, installed in 1994 or so, it has 7-16 DIN output with N inputs. Antennas are 7-16 also. I've got a few adapters, just in case, but rarely need them.

N is more than sufficient for our 800MHz and lower stuff.

mmckenna said:

N is more than sufficient for our 800MHz and lower stuff.

Click to expand...

I used to think that, but now I prefer the 7-16 DIN on cables carrying combined transmitter power. Somewhere along the way, I started noticing discolored center pins on N connectors carrying power from a transmitter combiner. I deal with some that have as many as 12 100 watt transmitters on them. That's starting to get awful close to the 800 MHz power handling limit for those things.

Obviously they're fine at 800 at lower power levels. I've used precision N's up to 24 GHz.

If you are spending all that money on heliax, why would you put a Diamond on the end of it?

That's like putting recap tires on a Corvette.

If you care about performance enough to be splitting hairs over a rf connector, why wouldn't you care enough to buy a decent antenna?

MOTEX said:

If you are spending all that money on heliax, why would you put a Diamond on the end of it?

That's like putting recap tires on a Corvette.

If you care about performance enough to be splitting hairs over a rf connector, why wouldn't you care enough to buy a decent antenna?

Click to expand...

First I bought Antenex FG4405 commercial antenna assuming it was collinear. Some folks said here it was j-pole. So I thought I'd go with Diamond because;

a) Diamond is affordable.I cannot spend $900 on a PCTEL antenna.
b) Diamond is ground plane. From what I have read, ground plane antennas perform better than j-poles.
c) Diamond comes in 2 sections, so shipping tube will be less than 6'. I can easily check it in with my luggage with the airline when it goes to its final destination. I know professionals here do not like two-section antennas because of deterioration and leakage (during rain). I think I can remedy that with heavy duty tape and I can replace it every 4 or 5 years as needed. After all, it's going to be on top of my house and is used for ham purposes only. So I guess Diamond would do just fine. Correct me if I'm wrong.