Outside Law enforcement in Napa/Sonoma Fires

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rockettradio

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With the influx of outside LEO's to assist with checkpoints and curfew, how are they handling comms?
Fire is obvious with NIFOG and VHF, but LE in SF area is all over the place radio-wise, are LEO's bringing their own radios, or is Napa (VHF) and Sonoma (UHF 450/460) handing out cache? What freqs are they using?
 

kg6nlw

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As far as Sonoma County goes, they are handing out county radio's. Lots of SFPD, SFSO, etc., all on Sheriff's channels here.

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

kg6nlw

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There are a lot of agencies helping, too many to actually list. Most have anywhere from 25 to 150 officers here.

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

srich10

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So much for spending thousands on multi-band radios with “interoperability” when in the end you’re just hot potatoe-ing county radios to incoming units
 

norcalscan

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Usually by the time LE Mutual Aid gets mobilized, Fire has sucked up all the VTac interop freqs etc. The easiest way is having neighboring agencies already have dispatch and secondary channels pre-programmed in if in the same band. The next easiest way is handing out handhelds from a cache to incoming agencies, with hosting agency freqs or mutual aid freqs programmed in. The third option is audio patching between bands, so a VHF mutual aid freq that Agencies A and B have, is linked with a UTac mutual aid freq that Agency C has in their cars, and linked to an 8Tac freq that Agency D has. Some CA counties have infrastructure in place to setup patches on mountain tops or in their county command bus/motorhome. Others rely on portable setups from OES.
 

norcalscan

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So much for spending thousands on multi-band radios with “interoperability” when in the end you’re just hot potatoe-ing county radios to incoming units

Yup. Interoperabilty is an attitude and practice, not a technical feature. Buying whizbang radios and calling it good doesn't work. Three critical layers have to be accomplished before successful/smooth interop can even happen; politics, technical, training.

Political means you have to get up and go shake hands with your neighbor, set aside rank/pride/whathaveyou, and setup agreements and exchange info such as freqs, procedures etc.

Technical means you both have to have access to the technology to achieve this, and you have to transfer the knowledge from the political level down to your agency radio techs or get radio techs talking across agency lines (which is politics of its own). Then the radios have to get programmed and maintained.

Training means your officers need to know that there is more to their radio than Channel A1 Dispatch and A3 Traffic. They need to understand the bigger picture of switching their radios to Zone 4 Channel 2 to get to VTac14, and that there may be solid/shaky/temporary infrastructure on that channel that lets them talk to someone else. They need to understand it might have lots of static, not as clear as their daily dispatch traffic, it will take work and patience to communicate etc. AND they need to go into clear text. This is the most painful for LE typically. Each agency can have their own 10codes, disposition codes etc. and they need to speak in plain ol' english instead.
 

avascan522

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NORCAL Fires

Norcalscan, that was a perfect explanation. If you don't mind, I might use your verbiage when I try to explain these things to my local first responders (and anyone that questions interoperability, really...)


In regards to frequencies, does anyone know for sure what is being used? I live in south Vallejo, so I'm not close enough to the action to catch everything. So far, this is what I have for fire:

Southern LNU Complex (Atlas/Partrick Fires)

Command: (CDF Command 6 - but I could be wrong)
Air Attack: CDF Air-to-Ground 1
128.250 AM
Tac: CDF Tac 5
CDF Tac 29
V-Fire 23



Central LNU Complex (Nuns/Adobe/Norbbom/Tubbs)

Command: CDF Command 6
Air Attack: (Take-offs) 123.175 AM
Tac: CDF Tac 13
Frequency 1 (151.1975) WRAD220



If anyone has more accurate information, I would appreciate having the frequencies. PM if you don't want to post publicly.

Thanks.
 

kg6nlw

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Norcalscan, that was a perfect explanation. If you don't mind, I might use your verbiage when I try to explain these things to my local first responders (and anyone that questions interoperability, really...)


In regards to frequencies, does anyone know for sure what is being used? I live in south Vallejo, so I'm not close enough to the action to catch everything. So far, this is what I have for fire:

Southern LNU Complex (Atlas/Partrick Fires)

Command: (CDF Command 6 - but I could be wrong)
Air Attack: CDF Air-to-Ground 1
128.250 AM
Tac: CDF Tac 5
CDF Tac 29
V-Fire 23



Central LNU Complex (Nuns/Adobe/Norbbom/Tubbs)

Command: CDF Command 6
Air Attack: (Take-offs) 123.175 AM
Tac: CDF Tac 13
Frequency 1 (151.1975) WRAD220



If anyone has more accurate information, I would appreciate having the frequencies. PM if you don't want to post publicly.

Thanks.

I know the Pocket Fire, because you forgot that, is Command 6, CDF Tac 13, and possibly VTAC14...

Regards,

-Frank C.
 

rockettradio

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Thanks for the input and discussion, norcalscan's thoughts especially. If they had 700/800 on them, they went to interop channels with CHP, otherwise they got handed a portable. I even heard some faint evac related traffic on Clemars VHF!
 

norcalscan

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Norcalscan, that was a perfect explanation. If you don't mind, I might use your verbiage when I try to explain these things to my local first responders (and anyone that questions interoperability, really...)

Totally! I'm all for any and every agency understanding how interoperability truly works and that it isn't a bullet point feature on the next Motorola APXten-thousand.

Having some vtac freqs somewhere in the back of your radio doesn't mean you have interoperability solved, like many fire chiefs or LE thinks. Granted, it gets a huge hurdle out of the way though. Then the politics and stuff can be done over the hood of a car at 1am while hacking through smoke and flying embers, and hopefully they quickly understand how to use plain english on the fly. But none of that is safe or ideal, nor does it rapidly scale. If an agency says, "if we ever need this we'll figure it out then, it always works out..." then they need a good smack to the head. :) Good luck!
 

brushfire21

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Central Complex (west side of the Nunns, Tubbs and Pocket Fire) were on LNU East/West and then switched to CMD-6 several days in and various tacs.

Southern Complex was the Atlas Fire and east side of of the Nunns/Partrick Fire.
CMD was Napa County Fire and then switched to OES 2B 4-5 days in.

Law enforcement mutual aid Radio coms is a joke when compared to the fireside. Almost every fire engine in the state has a VHF Radio (plus whatever Radio is needed for local operation) with the VHF firescope load and usually the Calfire state load as well. We can usually make things work with those loads. But as been mentioned before, the LE side is all over the Board with no common denominator like fire does.

Good old fashion analog channels on a simply Radio is far more useful then all of the local interop P25 fiefdoms that have been built.
 
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