Repeaters during an emergency

danfinger · Oct 17, 2017

Primarily got into HAM so I would be able to communicate with the wife across the SF Bay (SF to Oakland/Richmond) in the event of an earthquake. I've gotten my technician ticket and wife is studying for hers now. I work in SF and she works in Oakland/Richmond.
I’ve tested a couple of repeaters from SF and wife was able to hear me (she hasn’t passed her test yet so didn’t reply)

145.290 KB6LED
146.850 K6LNK

I imagine these repeaters will be saturated with emergency comms so it might not be possible for us to give each other a status report for how we’re doing, and radio to radio would likely not work since we’re anywhere from 12 to 20 miles from each other. Aside from just searching for a low traffic repeater, which might not exist, and it is unlikely we'd be able to synch up to the same one at the same time- what alternatives methods might we try? I’m trying to figure out how to determine if a repeater will not be dedicated to emergency traffic only so I could set that as the first channel she tries when switching on. We’re both running BF-F8HP’s @ 8Watts.

Newbie thanks to you for your responses. Also, thanks for this forum! I’ve learned a great deal (CHIRP, repeaterbook.com, hamqth.com etc.) here.
~df

jaspence · Oct 17, 2017

Repeaters

Look for a 222MHz repeater or possibly 440 Mhz. 222 MHz is not used very much in many areas, but it works as well as the 2 meter band if the location is decent. In our area, 440 is sometimes used for comms, and your area will differ in the number or repeaters on that band. Check to see which band is used for emergencies in your area and go from there for one with low use.

mmckenna · Oct 17, 2017

It's a good day to consider earthquake preparedness in the bay area….

If your two locations are within line of sight of each other, simplex (radio to radio) might work just fine. Power limitations won't be an issue if the two radios can "see" each other.

K6LNK is the CARLA linked system that covers most of Northern California. Very likely that system would be saturated in any sort of event. I wouldn't rely on it. Even if it was up and running, carrying on any extended conversation with your wife would probably not be welcome if there was a lot of others trying to use the system.

There are a LOT of amateur repeaters in the bay area. However, do keep in mind that most of these repeaters are constructed by hobbyists, and not always using ideal construction, locations, power backup etc. I would not rely on an amateur radio repeater to be functional in any sort of emergency where power might be out, buildings damaged, etc. Granted, some are built well, but it's not guaranteed.

As jaspence said, 222 and 440 might be a good option, but the same limitations on the repeaters comes into play. You'd be relying on someone else's equipment to be there, be functioning, and be available.

The most important part is training. None of these radios will do any good unless you guys have a plan, stick with the plan, and understand what to do when something doesn't work.

Personally, I'd try to have a simplex frequency set aside as a fall back. Give the repeaters a try, but I wouldn't rely on them.

danfinger · Oct 17, 2017

mmckenna said:
It's a good day to consider earthquake preparedness in the bay area….

If your two locations are within line of sight of each other, simplex (radio to radio) might work just fine. Power limitations won't be an issue if the two radios can "see" each other.

K6LNK is the CARLA linked system that covers most of Northern California. Very likely that system would be saturated in any sort of event. I wouldn't rely on it. Even if it was up and running, carrying on any extended conversation with your wife would probably not be welcome if there was a lot of others trying to use the system.

There are a LOT of amateur repeaters in the bay area. However, do keep in mind that most of these repeaters are constructed by hobbyists, and not always using ideal construction, locations, power backup etc. I would not rely on an amateur radio repeater to be functional in any sort of emergency where power might be out, buildings damaged, etc. Granted, some are built well, but it's not guaranteed.

As jaspence said, 222 and 440 might be a good option, but the same limitations on the repeaters comes into play. You'd be relying on someone else's equipment to be there, be functioning, and be available.

The most important part is training. None of these radios will do any good unless you guys have a plan, stick with the plan, and understand what to do when something doesn't work.

Personally, I'd try to have a simplex frequency set aside as a fall back. Give the repeaters a try, but I wouldn't rely on them.

Yeah, Hayward fault is only 1 mile from our house and is due. The geonerds have determined it slips about every 180 years and the last time it popped was 186 years ago. So she's primed.

I'll definitely try those freqs out. I have programmed about a dozen simplex freqs on 146.* into our radios which we've been practicing using around our area with some success- haven't tried from across the bay yet but I don't think we'll have much luck since LOS just isn't there. Treasure Island is just a tiny bit too tall :/

The plan is for me to be scanning a bunch of repeaters in the area after the event to see which is light on traffic. Then at the top and bottom of the hour announce on one of the main ones we know we can both hit and switch to a lighter traffic freq. something like "KM6KGD - danfinger checking in for <wifey's handle> switch to preset 11". 11 being the light traffic repeater freq. - Seems like the most logical plan but hey, what do I know... I am a total newbie so VERY open to suggestions.

Thanks so much for the response. ~Dan

PrivatelyJeff · Oct 17, 2017

Do you both drive cars or have a place to setup HF stations at home/work?

danfinger · Oct 17, 2017

JeffDS3 said:
Do you both drive cars or have a place to setup HF stations at home/work?

Negative. She works .7 mile from the house in Oakland and rides her bike to the office 4 out of 5 days. I ride my bike to the BART train to work in SF. those BF8's are what we've got to work with... I did put some Nagoya NA-771's on them though. Which, I realize is only slightly better than the duck for our purpose. Having a rig in either office wouldn't fly for either of us. Plus the power would likely be out anyway.

At home I guess I could set up something a beefier but the real purpose for these HT's is for us to be able to communicate with each other if I'm stuck in SF. She works one day a week in Richmond which is about 12 miles north but again, takes her bike to the BART train. Driving in this area is a serious pain in the derriere. I-580 is one of the worst versions of traffic hell on earth - even on a normal day.

If a major seismic event were to happen, I'd honestly rather be on my bike than in a car- the streets and highways would be a scat show.

PrivatelyJeff · Oct 17, 2017

I was thinking a mobile HF system for you to use in a car or office space but I guess that won’t work for you. You can also setup a HF to a dual band radio at home so she hits that then can get you in the city if you had a HF mobile station there. I wonder if you could build a backpack radio kit to wear for the ride home.

mmckenna · Oct 17, 2017

danfinger said:
Yeah, Hayward fault is only 1 mile from our house and is due. The geonerds have determined it slips about every 180 years and the last time it popped was 186 years ago. So she's primed.

I was living/working in San Jose back in '89. I live out near Monterey, now. Realized that my 12 year old son has never felt an earthquake, which is a good thing.

danfinger said:
I'll definitely try those freqs out. I have programmed about a dozen simplex freqs on 146.* into our radios which we've been practicing using around our area with some success- haven't tried from across the bay yet but I don't think we'll have much luck since LOS just isn't there. Treasure Island is just a tiny bit too tall :/

I'd still give it a try. With all the hills, buildings, bridges, etc. you might be surprised. Signals can bounce of objects and get around obstructions. I was down near Morgan Hill/Gilroy yesterday in the work truck and was getting one of my VHF repeaters down fairly low in Santa Cruz loud and clear. No direct line of site between me and the repeater.

If not, lots of repeaters in the area to try. Most of them are dead quiet most of the day.

danfinger · Oct 18, 2017

mmckenna said:
I was living/working in San Jose back in '89. I live out near Monterey, now. Realized that my 12 year old son has never felt an earthquake, which is a good thing.

Oh I don't know, 12yo would be a pretty good age to experience something like that. Old enough to realize what's going on and still understand that if he keeps his head that it'll work out. Good character builder?

mmckenna said:
I'd still give it a try. With all the hills, buildings, bridges, etc. you might be surprised. Signals can bounce of objects and get around obstructions. I was down near Morgan Hill/Gilroy yesterday in the work truck and was getting one of my VHF repeaters down fairly low in Santa Cruz loud and clear. No direct line of site between me and the repeater.

If not, lots of repeaters in the area to try. Most of them are dead quiet most of the day.

Roger that. I'll definitely be testing the waves. Thanks again.

danfinger · Oct 18, 2017

JeffDS3 said:
I was thinking a mobile HF system for you to use in a car or office space but I guess that won’t work for you. You can also setup a HF to a dual band radio at home so she hits that then can get you in the city if you had a HF mobile station there. I wonder if you could build a backpack radio kit to wear for the ride home.

A decent home rig is certainly on the list. I'd like to put some money into a solar battery bank first though. In due time.

A backpack kit would be very low on that list! Getting from SF to Oakland after a major event would require a GHB with the bare essentials. HF with a portable 12V power source would not make the list. My current GHB is almost 16 pounds dry, 19 pounds if I fill the water bladder. I want to keep the weight down as much as possible.

mmckenna · Oct 18, 2017

HF is way overkill for talking from SF to Oakland. Fine if you want to talk across the state or country, but not for what you are doing. HF might be something you'd be interested in on the hobby side.

Simplex VHF might work fine. Repeater would be an option.
Low band, like 6 meters, would be an option too. SFPD uses low band VHF as a back up system, or at least they used to. A year or two ago they still had old Low band VHF's in some of the cars.

jonwienke · Oct 18, 2017

If you're going to use repeaters to communicate in a disaster scenario, expect that some of them will be offline, and many of the surviving stations will be extremely congested.

Make a list of repeaters you'd want to use, and set up a schedule for attempting contact. For example:

:00-:05 Simplex Channel
:05-:10 Repeater 1
:10-:15 Repeater 2
:15-:20 Repeater 3

...and so on. This will maximixe the chances of you both being on the same frequency or repeater at the same time, even if multiple options on your list are excessively congested or offline. Depending on how close you can synchronize your watches, you could try one minute time slots, or alternatively, you could get a pair of cheap analog scanners like the BC75XLT, and program them with all your local repeaters and simplex freqs so you could call on any free channel and have a good chance of being heard.

ecps92 · Oct 18, 2017

If Voice is not avail [tied up] why not use Packet or APRS

danfinger said:
Primarily got into HAM so I would be able to communicate with the wife across the SF Bay (SF to Oakland/Richmond) in the event of an earthquake. I've gotten my technician ticket and wife is studying for hers now. I work in SF and she works in Oakland/Richmond.
I’ve tested a couple of repeaters from SF and wife was able to hear me (she hasn’t passed her test yet so didn’t reply)

145.290 KB6LED
146.850 K6LNK

I imagine these repeaters will be saturated with emergency comms so it might not be possible for us to give each other a status report for how we’re doing, and radio to radio would likely not work since we’re anywhere from 12 to 20 miles from each other. Aside from just searching for a low traffic repeater, which might not exist, and it is unlikely we'd be able to synch up to the same one at the same time- what alternatives methods might we try? I’m trying to figure out how to determine if a repeater will not be dedicated to emergency traffic only so I could set that as the first channel she tries when switching on. We’re both running BF-F8HP’s @ 8Watts.

Newbie thanks to you for your responses. Also, thanks for this forum! I’ve learned a great deal (CHIRP, repeaterbook.com, hamqth.com etc.) here.
~df

jaspence · Oct 18, 2017

New User

When riding a bike, anything more that a HT is difficult. 6 meters is pretty useless due to the size of antenna and lack of reasonable hand held units. Another ham and I lived less than a mile los and did better with .5 watt FRS than 6 meters running 5 watts.

bharvey2 · Oct 18, 2017

I live in the Bay Area and am familiar with the repeaters you mentioned. CARLA was one one them and while it has some excellent features it will likely be very busy when an emergency comes along. From my home and work in San Leandro, I've made it as far north as Vallejo and as far south as Palo Alto on simplex. My brother and I have also worked simplex between the Hayward hills and Hesperian Blvd. with HTs only. Communications were "clear as a bell" in the last example. If I were formulating a plan, I'd find some spots for you and your wife that permit as close to line of site as possible and with as much height as possible. Consider too that in an emergency, access to those spots might be compromised so have a "Plan B" as well. If you can cobble together a better antenna than the stock HT antennas and learn how to get them up and running, that will help too.

KE5MC · Oct 18, 2017

danfinger said:
...snip...

...haven't tried from across the bay yet but I don't think we'll have much luck since LOS just isn't there. Treasure Island is just a tiny bit too tall :/

...snip...

Thanks so much for the response. ~Dan

I've lived in the area many years ago so don't discount simplex because of TI. We say line-of -sight, but its not like a laser beam. Knife edge refraction and reflections from objects in the path allow it to work better than you might expect.

Using Google Earth, pin your work locations and home. Draw some lines between the points and see what you have to work with. Plus you will be able to identify better location to try moving to several blocks in different directions.

Good Luck,
Mike

danfinger · Oct 18, 2017

mcscanner said:
I've lived in the area many years ago so don't discount simplex because of TI. We say line-of -sight, but its not like a laser beam. Knife edge refraction and reflections from objects in the path allow it to work better than you might expect.

Using Google Earth, pin your work locations and home. Draw some lines between the points and see what you have to work with. Plus you will be able to identify better location to try moving to several blocks in different directions.

Good Luck,
Mike

I'll definitely be trying it out soon. Might be able to bounce some signal off the taller buildings if I'm down on the Embarcadero which is only a few blocks from my office. thanks!

danfinger · Oct 18, 2017

ecps92 said:
If Voice is not avail [tied up] why not use Packet or APRS

I'd be down to learn about that. Do you know of any good 'how to's' ? The wiki mentions APRS protocol includes text, Not really clear on how I'd be able to key in a status like "I'm ok, on my way home meow".

bharvey2 · Oct 18, 2017

danfinger said:
I'll definitely be trying it out soon. Might be able to bounce some signal off the taller buildings if I'm down on the Embarcadero which is only a few blocks from my office. thanks!

From the Embarcadero to many places in Oakland or Richmond sounds quite doable via simplex. If you're wife is close to any of the marina areas you the workings of good plan.

AI7PM · Oct 18, 2017

Repeaters area a convenience. Never give them more worth than that.

Repeaters during an emergency

Member

Member

I ♥ Ø

Member

Has more money than sense

Member

Has more money than sense

I ♥ Ø

Member

Member

I ♥ Ø

More Info Coming Soon!

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads