San Bernardino agencies moving to encryption

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spectr17

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From a PD friend: Redlands, Colton, Fontana, Rialto, and CSUSB Police are all flipping the encryption switch end of November. Near thanksgiving.
 

ki6qfi

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Time to find a new hobby. [emoji24]

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K2RNI

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Time to find a new hobby. [emoji24]

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There's other interesting things to listen to listen too than police and fire. Or you can take up SDR hacking and decrypt their p25 if you really want lol
 

krazybob

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I can tell I can tell you that at least Fontana is using it already. They had a pretty Kick-*** Pursuit the other night that went for well over an hour until the subject TC'd. They were patched over on system 8 and I can hear them all loud and clear but I guess the mobiles were having a hard time hearing on their side and one of them said everybody switch to digital. They're under the misconception that just going to digital will increase the range of the radios. Add encryption to that and that's even more information that has to be decoded.

I have it on excellent authority that fire will mostly be in the clear with primarily the mobiles-to-hospitals encrypted because of HIPAA. There's a very little fire traffic that takes place that requires encryption. I personally don't think they even need to go digital but that's just my opinion. It's going to mean a large expense that the county doesn't have and even with Homeland Security grants I don't know how they're doing it. But that's a topic for another time.

It was a great Pursuit but the officers need to learn quickly that it best going to digital will give them 3 to 4 miles if even that. You can't change physics or typography. Line of sight is still line of sight. We all know the difference is that with analog you can pick up bits and pieces but with digital once it's gone it's gone. they had 40 King overhead and they could have all gone simplex or talk around as they know it and 40 King could have relayed. For that matter they could have gone to CLEMARS especially since they were prepared to hand it off to RSO. CHP refused to take it. I wonder what that was all about.
 

bb911

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...I have it on excellent authority that fire will mostly be in the clear with primarily the mobiles-to-hospitals encrypted because of HIPAA. .....

Just curious, what can you tell us about your "excellent authority" without giving his/her identity away?
 

f40ph

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They're under the misconception that just going to digital will increase the range of the radios.

They are correct. If you compare the SBCo analog TRS and the P25 TRS, the footprint is larger for P25 because the digital system leverages ALL towers in the system based on user location, the analog has a fixed footprint and a smaller coverage area depending on which system you select (6-valley, or 8-mountains).
 

rubidug

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Very sad.
I'm a teacher at a school in San B. The principal would always come to me if there was PD activity including 40-King nearby. I carry a handheld scanner with my laptop. Now that city PD is encrypted, I have no info for them to help keep the kids safe. Call the non-emergency number and hope for the best, I told them~
 

f40ph

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Text / Push notification signup

Very sad.
I'm a teacher at a school in San B. The principal would always come to me if there was PD activity including 40-King nearby. I carry a handheld scanner with my laptop. Now that city PD is encrypted, I have no info for them to help keep the kids safe. Call the non-emergency number and hope for the best, I told them~

The world will still go on and the kids will be safe.

Until something better comes along, sign up for your school's emergency notifications.

For example:
https://northverdemont.sbcusd.com/cms/One.aspx?portalId=59953&pageId=1078876
 

f40ph

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County B.O.S. funds new system (2013)

I personally don't think they even need to go digital but that's just my opinion. It's going to mean a large expense that the county doesn't have and even with Homeland Security grants I don't know how they're doing it.

This is how they're doing it.
Board supports upgraded public safety radio system | County of San Bernardino – CountyWire

All users of the current system will migrate over and don't have a choice to stay analog (unless, of course, they want to opt out and develop their own infrastructure).
 

f40ph

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Payments of $20M per year through 2019

The article at the link was published December 18, 2013.

Yes, you are correct but the article still applies and the system upgrade continues. Check the 2nd paragraph from the bottom, they have been making payments to upgrade the radio system of $20M per year continuing through 2019. The question comes up time and again about where the money is going to come from. I re-posted the article to answer the "I don't know how they are doing it" question above.
 
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krazybob

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They are correct. If you compare the SBCo analog TRS and the P25 TRS, the footprint is larger for P25 because the digital system leverages ALL towers in the system based on user location, the analog has a fixed footprint and a smaller coverage area depending on which system you select (6-valley, or 8-mountains).

I'm guessing you don't run an analog, P25 and DMR repeater. You cannot change topography. Fontana is always patched to system 8 due to a shortage of dispatchers. They were not on system 8. You may have missed where I wrote that the mobiles were loud and clear into the site but one unit suggested going to digital. Technically P25 only offers 3-4 extra miles based on topography. They had not switched to countywide or 6-Pursuit but stayed on 6-Fontana. As they went south down the 15 well into Riverside county they may have been affiliated on Aerojet but blind due to a set of hills in the way as they entered Corona. That suggests that they were still on the Fontana tower on Jurupa. I am well familiar with simulcast/voted operation. By configuration their current analog SmartZone II system as well as the FCC mandate that they use low level short range towers. The point is that P25 does not offer a significant range advantage.
 

f40ph

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I am well familiar with simulcast/voted operation. By configuration their current analog SmartZone II system as well as the FCC mandate that they use low level short range towers. The point is that P25 does not offer a significant range advantage.

The current analog system is not SmartZone, it is SmartNet. However, the P25 is SmartZone.
 

northzone

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Technically P25 only offers 3-4 extra miles based on topography.

That is not even close to the truth. I use a P25 ham repeater with my 5 watt handheld that is 60 miles from me. Loud and clear.

Read the real studies that have been done. In 95% of the studies digital outperformed analog right until the very edge (the last mile or so) of the coverage.
 

f40ph

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The apple vs orange thing about this discussion is we're not strictly talking about true radio propagation of P25 vs analog. We're talking about two DIFFERENT trunking systems, one being SmartNet and the other being SmartZone. The coverage area for the P25 system is larger than either of the two analog systems in question. The reason for this is the fact that SmartZone leverages all towers and doesn't restrict a radios ability to affiliate with ANY tower in the system even ones we are used to think about in a different "system". This is why the units suggested switching to digital. They're referring to a known "system" with a larger coverage area which extends outside of SBCo due to positioning of the sites in the mountains.

As an example: I can use analog in Fontana or Chino and not be able to talk to someone in Yucca Valley. However, if I "switch to digital", I can now do this. The reason isn't simply due to "switching to digital", it's just that the digital system is SmartZone vs the analog SmartNet.

I am told that the total number of towers in the valley alone is currently 6 on analog, yet when the system is fully completed, it will be 30. Where are they now in the process? I'd have to look at licensing via the FCC website. Rest assured that there are more sites today on digital.
 
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