DMR for CERT Team

scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

I'm thinking about getting a few Radioditty GD77's and a CS800D for CERT use. We will use primarily simplex, so I would like to know, can these radios do two time slots on the same simplex frequency, but different talkgroups? Also, the reason I'd prefer DMR over Analog would be the use of talkgroups, and audio clarity. I'm hoping we can get it to work well for 3-5 miles. Anyone have any thoughts, or input?

N4KVE · Nov 6, 2017

These radios need a repeater to guide them to the correct time slot. I believe in simplex, they will take up both times lots. So with 4 radios close to each other, 2 on TS 1 using TG 99, & 2 others on TS 2 using TG 199 will not work.

scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

That was my assumption too, but thought I'd ask. It's not a huge deal breaker, but thought I'd ask.

daugherh · Nov 6, 2017

Yes to verify what was said before, it will not support was in called "Dual Capacity Direct Mode" such as you would find with the Gen 2 MotoTRBO radios by Motorola (XPR 3500 or 7550). I ran into this playing around for our CERT group as well. I figured having 4 licensed UHF frequencies that the 2 TG at a time per frequency would be nice to have, but since you have to have a high dollar radio to support it, I can make due with only 4 frequencies being used at once. You can still assign different TGs to use the same frequency as another, just not sharing it at the same time!

If your CERT group has the money and really want the 2 in 1, Motorola or Vertex Standard radios will support 2 TGs per simplex frequency (DCDM).

scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

Ok sounds good. Yeah I think we can handle having different talkgroups, since we aren't that large of a CERT Group. Does your CERT group do well with DMR, and what type of license did you get? How much was the license?

daugherh · Nov 6, 2017

We are still switching from analog but so far we’ve been really impressed with DMR. Now that we have a few of the cheaper radios to test more with I see us moving permanently here soon.

As far as licensing, we have a IG (Business Pool) Itinerant license for 4 VHF and 4 UHF frequencies with all 8 having emission designators for both 11K2F3E analog and 7K60FXE and 7K60FXD for TRBO DMR voice and data. You can add almost any emission designator that you may use. I regret not adding for NXDN but can always modify later. It was around $170 for a ten year license. Depending on how your CERT is managed, such as through the fire department, police department or local EMA they may can help you out with it.

If you decide to do like we did, it’s not really hard it can just be a pain because if the forms aren’t 100% correct you’ll be delayed and have to redo them.

I’m not near my computer now for more information but feel free to pm me if you would like more info. I might can send you our forms as a reference.

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scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

I thought about the itinerant license as well. They're not having power limitations are they? I thought I saw that if you're a non for profit, you can get fees waived. We are managed by the EMA/PD, but they don't help too much with radios. We currently use MURS, and I'd like to do something that we can do legally, like DMR/Analog depending on the situation.

DMR would have talkgroups for all different ops. Since we cover a four county area, these talkgroups would be as such. I'm also thinking about getting the CS800D DMR Mobile so I can use it on any public safety frequencies as needed.

I'm thinking about doing a test with my FT2DR for HAM on digital, and test it with a mobile in our EOC just to show them how much better it sounds.

daugherh · Nov 6, 2017

Most itinerant tops at 50 watts. I’ll look up the list tomorrow with the different requirements and pass it to you. I understand the not much help.

If you plan to use the radio on public safety, or a license you acquire, make sure that radio is FCC certified for Part 90.

As far as non profits I think part of the fees are waived. I couldn’t tell you for sure as we haven’t figured that part out yet about how to start filing for 501(c)3.

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daugherh · Nov 6, 2017

Also, depending on how your events are the itinerant may not be best option for your team. Getting a coordinated frequency(ies) might be better. I can help you figure more of that out tomorrow as well.

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scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

Thanks, I really appreciate it! Itinerant seems feasible since we go anywhere on given call. I believe I found your license, and that seems just exactly as I was thinking. My mobile will have to be programmed so that it meets criteria for DMR Marc, but I can come up with random TGs for our CERT Team, so I still think it's a win win for me!

daugherh · Nov 6, 2017

Good! Just remember make sure radios are part 90 certified. And if you’re going to run mobiles and portables, you can list it as the highest power. If you’re looking at our license you’ll see each frequency listed twice. High and low power. I misunderstood how to list them. Just cover the highest (mobiles and bases) and it covers your portables.

I’ll send that chart of info tomorrow when I get to the office. Its a huge help!

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scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

Thank you so much! I think they're all part certified.

jaspence · Nov 6, 2017

From an eham review "The radio itself does not have a Part 90 or even Part 97 certification label on the ..." This makes it only legally usable on the ham frequencies. Although cost is a little higher and it is UHF only, the CS580 might be a good choice and is FCC certified. I have both, and the 580 also has better battery life and will stand upright on a flat surface, something the GD-77 does not do well.

scannerowner · Nov 6, 2017

Unfortunately, I'd like a dual band radio. I wonder if they'll get the certification eventually? I also like the MD 2017 from Tytera and it's both it looks.

jaspence · Nov 6, 2017

Although the GD-77 has been good with firmware updates, most Chinese radios see few changes after they go on sale.

scannerowner · Nov 7, 2017

I messaged the Radioddity team, and they hope to be Part certified by the end of December.

DaveNF2G · Nov 7, 2017

Is anybody besides Thales marketing Part 90 dual band digital radios yet?

DaveNF2G · Nov 7, 2017

scannerowner said:
I'm also thinking about getting the CS800D DMR Mobile so I can use it on any public safety frequencies as needed.

Others have already mentioned the need for Part 90 certification.

If you plan to have Part 90 frequencies programmed in transmit mode, you will also need either your own suitable license or permission in advance from the licensees of the public safety frequencies you might use.

daugherh · Nov 7, 2017

Scannerowner, here is the link to all the itinerant frequencies and requirements that I mentioned last evening.

Common Itinerant and Business - The RadioReference Wiki

dcr_inc · Nov 7, 2017

@daugher... where did you get your licensing done thru? I'm interested in getting an IG license for my church.

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