Oakland County P25 PII ?

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N9JIG

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I had a client call today and ask about Oakland County. He insisted that they were switching to a P25 Phase 2 system and have moved off the OpenSky system.

I could find nothing to support it but perhaps someone has more definitive answers...

I don't see any system listed, nor do I find anything other than mutual aid and patches on MPSCS.
 

RayAir

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I heard a rumor a few months ago they may have been looking at replacing OpenSky. Supposedly , NXDN was considered as well as moving to the statewide system (MPSCS).

The only thing I can say, is they are not on the state P25 system now and there currently is no phase 2 on the state system.
 

iMONITOR

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It was a bad decision to depart from the state's standard of P25 Phase 1 and go with Open Sky to begin with. The system was a total quagmire for years, and gave public safety people a lot of grief and increased risk! Cost overruns were insane!

Why repeat history and choose yet another non-standard for for Oakland County like NXDN. There must be some gigantic egos in Oakland that can't admit they made a mistake to begin with by not complying with Michigan's standard. But as we've seen over and over, money talks, and who's giving it to whom is what matters in Michigan.

I haven't heard any reliable info regarding Michigan moving from Phase 1 to Phase 2. Just lots of opinion and speculation. However, anyone purchasing a new scanner today, would be wise to buy one capable of Phase 2. If they can find a deal on a used Phase 1 scanner, they'd likely still get a couple years of service out of it, until changes are made, if they are made at all.
 

stantorres

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Still OpenSky for now

I heard they are looking at all options, as the OpenSky base station equipment is aging. The OpenSky system is still 100% in place.
 

RayAir

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I do know they wanted to add another MPSCS site in the Pontiac/Auburn Hills area to increase coverage in Oakland County but I don't think it's been done yet.

And this is b/c MPSCS coverage in Oakland County is pretty poor. Don't think it has to do with any possible Oakland Co switchover.

Yes, they should have joined the MPSCS so they could be on the same page as everyone else in the area. But I could see them doing something stupid again like going to a Nexedge TRS and then proudly proclaiming how "Interoperable" the new system is.
 

Thunderbolt

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The last I heard, numerous communities in Oakland County want to migrate to the MPSCS TRS, so they can be on the same system as their neighboring communities/counties for interoperability purposes. Likewise, County officials are looking at how much it would cost to erect a P25 Phase II TRS from Harris, vs. joining the MPSCS. It's going to be very interesting to watch and see what direction they decide to pursue.

73's

Ron
 

Golay

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The last I heard, numerous communities in Oakland County want to migrate to the MPSCS TRS, so they can be on the same system as their neighboring communities/counties for interoperability purposes. Likewise, County officials are looking at how much it would cost to erect a P25 Phase II TRS from Harris, vs. joining the MPSCS. It's going to be very interesting to watch and see what direction they decide to pursue.

73's

Ron

As I read about Oakland pondering a build out on their own, as opposed to joining MPSCS, I wonder how that is working for Downriver. Downriver Mutual Aid Authority hired Cassidian Communications, Inc. to build their new Project 25 TRS, instead of joining the MPSCS. I thought I read when that first went up that Moto's techs had some trails and tribulations getting interoperability between Downriver and MPSCS.
 

fnnm400

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They are in the process of preparing to change to P25. As I understand they are looking at options and will likely be heading out to bid or purchasing a new system. I don't suspect we'll see anything in service for a couple years at best.
 

a29zuk

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So my next question is, can the Downriver stand-alone P25 system be monitored?
I have them programmed in my 325p2 but haven't driven through the area to try to listen to any of the traffic yet.

Jim
 

HM1529

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I heard they are looking at all options, as the OpenSky base station equipment is aging. The OpenSky system is still 100% in place.

The Commonwealth of PA began its P25 Phase 2 rollout this year on a five year timeline. Their primary driver was the upcoming OpenSky end of life...that and the fact that they can achieve the same coverage with a fraction of the tower sites by using P25 technology on VHF (system is a VHF/700/800 hybrid) across large portions of the state. Rollout is currently underway in the NW and will run down the Ohio border to the SW part of the state over the next 12 months. Since they were the biggest government user of OpenSky, it is safe to say the technology is on the way out.
 

gpp10x

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So my next question is, can the Downriver stand-alone P25 system be monitored?
I have them programmed in my 325p2 but haven't driven through the area to try to listen to any of the traffic yet.

Jim

Yes it is possible to monitor them.
 

ffexpCP

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They are looking to replace opensky. They have decided p25 PII simulcast. No vendor chosen yet. It's unlikely they'll use MPSCS. Oakland county is their own empire and doesn't want to play nice. They'll use the excuse of they don't want to give the state their spectrum.

I'm expecting interesting developments in the next 3 months or so.
 

n8zcc

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I heard different (doesn't mean it is right), one source is my neighbor, an Oakland County deputy, another is a Bloomfield Officer and the last is a very recently retiree from the Oakland County Road Commission. All three said it was MPSCS they were going to.

All three had the same timeline, 18 to 24 months to complete the transition.
 
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Thunderbolt

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I heard different (doesn't mean it is right), one source is my neighbor, an Oakland County deputy, another is a Bloomfield Officer and the last is a very recently retiree from the Oakland County Road Commission. All three said it was MPSCS they were going to.

All three had the same timeline, 18 to 24 months to complete the transition.

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a firefighter in northern Oakland County. He said the county is planning to build a P25 simulcast system, and should be a part of the MPSCS. Apparently, they are planning to take the same approach the city of Detroit did in building their own simulcast cell. Estimates are it should be finished by early 2020.

73's

Ron
 

MetroMike

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Oakland is migrating to a subsystem of MPSCS. They will own and maintain their own infrastructure, but once complete they will be fully integrated into the state’s system.

There is a lot to be done on the business and engineering ends of this, but it obviously bodes well for regional interoperability.
 

pornodave

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After hearing a year and a half of rumors I started digging through meeting minutes and found this: (may have been posted in the link above - but it is not working)

I will be watching the Building Athority meeting minutes, agendas, etc....

8/23/17
*MISCELLANEOUS RESOLUTION #17230
BY: Commissioner Philip Weipert, Chairperson, Planning and Building Committee
IN RE: DEPARTMENT OF FACILITIES MANAGEMENT - RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE OAKLAND COUNTY BUILDING AUTHORITY TO FINANCE THE NEW OAKLAND COUNTY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM
To the Oakland County Board of Commissioners
Chairperson, Ladies and Gentlemen:
WHEREAS there have been prepared and presented to the Board of Commissioners (the "Board") of the County of Oakland, Michigan (the "County"), conceptual documents describing the project to finance the New County Radio Communications System (the "Project"), all as more fully described in EXHIBIT A to the Lease Contract (as hereinafter defined), and a proposed Lease Contract between the County and the Oakland County Building Authority (the "Authority") dated as of September 1, 2017 (the "Lease Contract"), pursuant to which the Authority will construct, furnish and equip the Project as set forth in the Lease Contract and as contemplated by the terms of Act No. 31, Public Acts of Michigan, 1948 (First Extra Session), as amended ("Act 31"), and lease the Project to the County for a term not to exceed 50 years as permitted by Act 31; and
WHEREAS it has been estimated that the period of usefulness of the Project to be not less than 21 years and that the total cost of constructing, furnishing, and equipping the Project (as defined in the Lease Contract) in an amount not to exceed $25,000,000 which will be provided by the proceeds from the sale of bonds by the Authority pursuant to Act 31; and
WHEREAS there has been prepared and attached hereto as APPENDIX I a form of Lease Contract and as APPENDIX II a form of notice entitled "NOTICE OF INTENTION OF THE COUNTY OF OAKLAND TO ENTER INTO A LEASE CONTRACT WITH THE OAKLAND COUNTY BUILDING AUTHORITY AND NOTICE OF RIGHT TO PETITION FOR REFERENDUM THEREON" (the "Notice of Intention").
NOW THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED by the Board of Commissioners of the County of Oakland, Michigan, as follows:
Commissioners Minutes Continued. August 23, 2017
544
1. The conceptual documents and estimates relating to the Project and identified in EXHIBIT A to APPENDIX I hereto are hereby approved and ordered filed with the County Clerk.
2. The Lease Contract in the form of APPENDIX I hereto is hereby approved.
3. It is hereby determined that the Notice of Intention provides information sufficient to adequately inform the electors and taxpayers of the County of the nature of the contractual obligations to be undertaken by the County in the Lease Contract and of their right under Act 31 to file a petition requesting a referendum election on the Lease Contract.
4. The form and content of the Notice of Intention, set forth in APPENDIX II, are hereby approved, and the County Clerk is hereby authorized and directed to cause the Notice of Intention to be published once in the Oakland Press, Pontiac, Michigan, a newspaper of general circulation within the County which is hereby determined to be the newspaper reaching the largest number of electors and taxpayers of the County. The Notice shall be at least one third of a page in size.
5. The Treasurer of the County is hereby authorized to declare official intent of the County with respect to reimbursement.
6. Each declaration of official intent shall be substantially in the form set forth in APPENDIX III attached hereto and by this reference incorporated herein, and said form may be modified from time to time on the advice of bond counsel to the County and as necessary to conform to requirements of our reimbursement regulations as the same may be adopted by the Internal Revenue Service or amended from time to time, or with the requirements of applicable rulings or regulations relating to tax-exempt borrowings.
7. The Treasurer is hereby directed to file each declaration of official intent in the office of the Oakland County Clerk, which location constitutes the customary location of the records of the Authority which are available to the general public.
8. The Oakland County Clerk is further directed to assure that each declaration of intent is continuously available during normal business hours of the County on every business day of the period beginning the earlier of 10 days after the date of execution of said declaration of intent and ending on the date of issuance of the Reimbursement Bonds.
9. All activities involved in the planning and construction of this Project under this resolution shall comply with the standing rules of the Board of Commissioners.
Chairperson, on behalf of the Planning and Building Committee, I move the adoption of the foregoing resolution.
PHILIP WEIPERT
Copy of Appendix I – Lease Contract, Exhibit A to Lease Contract – Project Description, Exhibit B to Lease Contract – Oakland Building Authority Project – Schedule of Principal and Interest, Appendix II – Notice of Intention of the County of Oakland to Enter Into a Lease Contract with the Oakland County Building Authority and Notice of Right to Petition for Referendum Thereon, Exhibit A to Notice of Intention – Project Description and Appendix III – Form of Declaration of Official Intent Incorporated by Reference. Original on file in County Clerk’s office.
FISCAL NOTE (MISC. #17230)
BY: Commissioner Tom Middleton, Chairperson, Finance Committee
IN RE: DEPARTMENT OF FACILITIES MANAGEMENT - RESOLUTION AUTHORIZING THE OAKLAND COUNTY BUILDING AUTHORITY TO FINANCE THE NEW OAKLAND COUNTY RADIO COMMUNICATIONS SYSTEM
To the Oakland County Board of Commissioners
Chairperson, Ladies and Gentlemen:
Pursuant to Rule XII-C of this Board, the Finance Committee has reviewed the above referenced resolution and finds:
1. The resolution authorizes the Oakland County Building Authority to issue Building Authority Bonds in the aggregate principal amount not to exceed $25,000,000 for the purpose of constructing, furnishing, and equipping a new radio communications system in the County of Oakland.
Commissioners Minutes Continued. August 23, 2017
545
2. The statutory limit for county debt is $6,900,835,221 (10% of current State Equalized Value). As of August 1, 2017 the total outstanding County pledged credit is $722,103,007, or approximately 1.046% of the S.E.V.
3. The Building Authority bonds shall bear interest at a rate or rates that will result in a net interest costs not exceeding 6% annum.
4. The term of the bonds to be issued in one or more series shall not exceed 21 years with funding for the principal and interest payment provided primarily from the Oakland County Radio Communications Fund. The FY 2017 – 2022 Fiscal Plan also references the possibility of supplemental funding from the General Fund towards the principal and interest payments.
5. A budget amendment will be completed at the time of the issuance of bonds and approval of the contract with the Building Authority.
6. No budget amendment is recommended at this time.
 
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