Question on The Future Of Scanning.

Good day! I've been thinking about what I have heard over the 50+ years that I have enjoyed this hobby. As of this time my "newest" scanner is a GRE PSR 500. I still enjoy the radio to this day. I also have a few older type scanners that I still use. My point is the local county system is now a P25 Phase I multi site system. Where my home QTH is, reception is not good. I have read about the pagers you can buy to receive these systems better - but cost is high. And what about when these systems go Phase II? Never mind encrypting ( which some users already do) with the bad reception to me it sounds as if they already are encrypted!

So if my understanding is correct, I'm hesitant to purchase one of these newer scanners that may be Phase II ready since I'd most likely still have the bad multi site reception! So the question on the future is...is it worth it to move in that direction ( new scanner) if there is no improvement in reception? Any thoughts on the " best" one out there? Or wait for the Phase II pagers?

Administrator. Feel free to move to another section if my choice of this one is not appropriate. Any thoughts or knowledge sharing is appreciated.

Thank you.

There are scanner solutions for multi-site systems. If there are any problems in that respect, I think they are relatively minor and have solutions.

As for simulcast issues - Unication has proven the problem can be solved - I have to believe that scanner manufacturers see this and are looking into solutions. The question is - when and for how much?

I am pretty happy with my G5 (and the G4 I had before it) when it comes to simulcast. It works great. I still find myself thinking the pager needs to be "carefully placed" like my scanners in order to receive simulcast systems and then I remember - wait, this is a G5 - it just doesn't matter. In contrast, I'm sitting here now with three radios - a TRX-1, a Uniden 436, and a Unication G5 - trying to monitor systems in Asheville and Buncombe County North Carolina. The only radio consistently receiving the county simulcast sites is the G5. All radios are receiving the Asheville system well - which is also supposed to be a simulcast system - but it sure seems like it's not simulcast. Best I can tell, the Asheville "simulcast" system is Motorola and the county system is not (possibly Harris?).

Having said that - the G5 is pretty limited as far as most scanner functionality.

In summary - I'm hoping and expecting that we'll see a scanner in the future that handles simulcast -- I just don't know if that is next month or 2 years from now.

Question on the future of scanning?

Thank you. Great insights. I may have to consider one of those pagers down the road!

I purchased a G4 for $525, not much more than a scanner. I don't require Phase II at the moment but Unication's Phase II upgrade is expected out sometime next year. I sold my BCD436HP for $469 with a hard leather case and charger which returned most of my original investment.

I didn't realize just how much I was actually missing until I used it side-by-side with my other scanners. Simulcast distortion is a big issue in my city. The G4 has a lot better range as well. I'm receiving P25 systems from 2 counties away with the G4 sitting in a console cupholder, which my 436 and HP-2 could never accomplish even with a mobile antenna. Plus I carry on my belt all the time and the G4 is a third as small and I often forget it is there.

There are some differences such as no delay but the clarity is well worth the difference. You just have to program them a little differently. Why have a scanner anyway if you can't hear everything.

Question On The Future Of Scanning

Good points all taken. Thank you!

This hobby is really about what you make it

pb_lonny said:

This hobby is really about what you make it

Click to expand...

Exactly - In the old days you just insert some crystals and (try to) listen...

Today, I find myself spending more time on scanning "related" things and not so much about listening.

Recordings, (meta)data, programming (radio and software), side-by-side comparisons (what works on some radios doesn't work well on others, etc.), finding and submitting new information, etc.

Alot of listening has become mostly "routine" and boring... kinda like looking for needles in the haystack.

troymail said:

Exactly - In the old days you just insert some crystals and (try to) listen...

Today, I find myself spending more time on scanning "related" things and not so much about listening.

Recordings, (meta)data, programming (radio and software), side-by-side comparisons (what works on some radios doesn't work well on others, etc.), finding and submitting new information, etc.

Alot of listening has become mostly "routine" and boring... kinda like looking for needles in the haystack.

Click to expand...

Exactly the same for me, I spend more time on research, checking logs and found channels, programming and data analysis than actually listening which I do very rarely.

pb_lonny said:

Exactly the same for me, I spend more time on research, checking logs and found channels, programming and data analysis than actually listening which I do very rarely.

Click to expand...

Yup - at home or driving, several radios are running at all times "in the background" and I almost don't even notice them.

There is another way if you are mostly listening from your house. You can get a yagi designed for the frequency range (700 or 800 MHz ). You need to point it in a way that makes one tower's signal as much as possible, stronger than the signals from other towers. This won't always be directly at the target tower. Sometimes for instance, turning it 5-10 degrees off from the target tower will still give a great signal from the target tower, while doing a far better job of attenuating the interfering tower. Plotting out a map and using the field pattern for a given antenna will give you a good idea of what you need to do.

I only moved a few months ago, so I haven't permanently mounted my latest 700 MHz yagi, but I've used this method for more than a decade with pretty good results. Right now my yagi is on a pole on a tripod, and I can hook it up to my BCD436 and rotate the yagi to get near perfect reception from inside my house, as opposed to unusable garbage for the RWC simulcast G system I have the most issues with when just using the rubber duck antenna, or even the rooftop omni-antenna that feeds my BCD536.

If you are moving around this won't work of course, and that pager is the only real alternative. It's not great as a scanner though, especially if you monitor 3-4 bands as I do at all times. I am sure Uniden and Whistler have seen what the pager has accomplished, and given enough money they could make a scanner that works with simulcast. Maybe they think that they couldn't sell enough of them to make up for the investment, but I can absolutely tell you for sure, that if such a creature existed (a true scanner that properly handled simulcast systems), I would be willing to pay $1,000 for it, and I suspect it could be made and sold for that amount. Considering that I paid $400+ for a PRO-2006 in the early 90's (a game-changer for that time period), I don't find $1,000 shocking for a game-changing scanner in 2017. Anyone else agree?

What will kill (public safety) scanning, isn't simulcast, that can and will be overcome. Encryption will kill this type of scanning in some or even most areas given enough time, so enjoy what's there is while it's there. Of course there are other interesting things to listen to, and I would just listen to them if needed, because I like monitoring in general. But public safety monitoring will go away, starting with big departments that can find the money for ultra-expensive digital systems, and who eventually find a reason to encrypt. Those in the sticks should be good for a while. I remember growing up that the grown ups would sit around playing cards and listening to the PD, even gossiping about who got in trouble in our small town. I imagine some places are somewhat like that even today.

KR7CQ said:

... I don't find $1,000 shocking for a game-changing scanner in 2017. Anyone else agree?

What will kill (public safety) scanning, isn't simulcast, that can and will be overcome. Encryption will kill this type of scanning in some or even most areas given enough time...

Click to expand...

I think a $1,000 scanner will not find a market outside of large cities where there is actually some action. Do I want to pay $1,000 to listen to endless fire alarm calls where the the chief returns everybody in under 5 minutes? Or the endless dog barking calls for the police? That is the typical suburban scene now even in mid-size burbs where simulcast is popular. Even in big cities now fire action has dropped off considerably (not complaining of course. Fewer fires are a good thing for people and property.) Many fire calls are now EMS responses. Philadelphia is a good example. Fire band calls are now endless medic calls with trucks responding with a medic unit. Not exactly exciting listening.

Agree with you on the encryption angle. Police in three locales near me will be encrypted within 1-2 years. So, why would I pay $1,000 for a scanner that will be useless for most police comms very soon?

Just my thoughts. Your post was insightful.

radio3353 said:

Agree with you on the encryption angle. Police in three locales near me will be encrypted within 1-2 years. So, why would I pay $1,000 for a scanner that will be useless for most police comms very soon?

Click to expand...

Great point, and for sure that would be a risk of spending that money. I guess the one saving grace is that a well cared for top of the line scanner has a fairly decent resale value, so I could always sell it if things go south. I hear that the new Maricopa County phase 2 system will be fully encrypted, and Phoenix PD has already encrypted their hot calls (tactical / talk / info TGs were encrypted on day 1 of the new system years ago). Most other agencies have been moving to encryption gradually as well. All it takes is the figurative "flip of the switch" and it all goes away for those monitoring Phoenix PD, and I have no doubt other smaller agencies would follow their lead.

Enjoy While You Can...

jgorman21 said:

Good day! I've been thinking about what I have heard over the 50+ years that I have enjoyed this hobby. As of this time my "newest" scanner is a GRE PSR 500. I still enjoy the radio to this day. I also have a few older type scanners that I still use. My point is the local county system is now a P25 Phase I multi site system. Where my home QTH is, reception is not good. I have read about the pagers you can buy to receive these systems better - but cost is high. And what about when these systems go Phase II? Never mind encrypting ( which some users already do) with the bad reception to me it sounds as if they already are encrypted!

So if my understanding is correct, I'm hesitant to purchase one of these newer scanners that may be Phase II ready since I'd most likely still have the bad multi site reception! So the question on the future is...is it worth it to move in that direction ( new scanner) if there is no improvement in reception? Any thoughts on the " best" one out there? Or wait for the Phase II pagers?

Administrator. Feel free to move to another section if my choice of this one is not appropriate. Any thoughts or knowledge sharing is appreciated.

Thank you.

Click to expand...

Upgrade and enjoy what there is now. I still hear the old time Ham ops on analog saying there isn't a reason to go digital but D-Star, DMR and C4FM are leaving them behind. They're the same ones that say there isn't much action on the repeaters as there used to be. Too bad they can't decode that noise on the increasing repeaters going digital.