STARS Input Frequencies
- Thread starter huntsman2
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gesucks
Member
Why would you need them?
gesucks
Member
You would have to be with in close vicinity of the radio, it would keep changing and you would hear it much better monitoring the system.
Yes this is a site for monitoring radios, and most of us also have a vested interest in making sure the systems do not get interfered with. This is very little use or benefit to monitoring the input freqs on the system. The question you asked is one the usually sets off flags when being asked. If you understand the P25 standard, you can figure out all the input channels
Yes this is a site for monitoring radios, and most of us also have a vested interest in making sure the systems do not get interfered with. This is very little use or benefit to monitoring the input freqs on the system. The question you asked is one the usually sets off flags when being asked. If you understand the P25 standard, you can figure out all the input channels
KI4SXZ
Member
One legit reason would be when you only want to rear radio traffic that is close proximity to your location. Since each STARS site covers such a large area, you might not care about what is happening 3 counties away. But if you listen to the i puts, you only are going to get close proximity calls. Its the only way to do what “close call” technology does for conventional radio, that is unavailable for trunked systems.
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I do not believe the main tools that RadioReference members like yourself use to acquire frequencies for trunking sites show the input frequencies. Keep in mind that much of the info on this site is contributed by volunteer members taking their own time to gather and share frequencies and other info to others.
nd5y
Member
You need to look up the FCC license for each site to find the input frequencies.
The 152 and 161 MHz frequencies are on, or in between, paired paging and marine channels. These are auctioned market-based licenses and won't be in the FCC database at individual sites like regular public safety licenses.
The paired paging channels are listed at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Part_22_Paging_Channels
The paired marine channels are listed at https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=vhfnb
You could be lucky and find some planning documents submitted as attachments to FCC applications that show the locations where they are using the paging and public coast frequences. Some other state & local trunked systems did that. I don't know about VA.
The 152 and 161 MHz frequencies are on, or in between, paired paging and marine channels. These are auctioned market-based licenses and won't be in the FCC database at individual sites like regular public safety licenses.
The paired paging channels are listed at https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Part_22_Paging_Channels
The paired marine channels are listed at https://www.navcen.uscg.gov/?pageName=vhfnb
You could be lucky and find some planning documents submitted as attachments to FCC applications that show the locations where they are using the paging and public coast frequences. Some other state & local trunked systems did that. I don't know about VA.
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W4UVV
Member
STARS input frequencies
My guess is the vast majority of monitors are more interested in repeater output frequencies than input frequencies. Most STARS input frequencies will relate to the old analog frequency assignments within each division. They include but may not be limited to 154.9050, 154.9350 and 155.4600 mhz.
The 157 mhz. frequencies you referenced typically are used in the SW VSP divisions bordering KY and/or WVA where the FCC restricted mobile inputs to 50 watts to protect previously licensed users in those two border states. There were multiple licenses issued over a period of years as STARS was being installed listing specific I/O fixed/mobile frequency combinations. STARS during that period still did not have sufficient new frequencies available for a statewide system installation. Some new frequencies were obtained from DOF and DGIF and a small spectrum section of 161 mhz, which was the old Marine Ship to Shore range. The STARS radio techs determined what frequencies were or were not used/reused and what may have resulted in a different available frequencies configuration for a particular STARS site.
In my opinion, the best way to confirm what frequencies each STARS site actually uses, especially the more rural mountainous located sites, is at least annually drive to within reception range of the target STARS site and using a laptop running Pro96Com confirm each site of interest and provide update info from Pro96Com only and not speculation.
John
W4UVV
My guess is the vast majority of monitors are more interested in repeater output frequencies than input frequencies. Most STARS input frequencies will relate to the old analog frequency assignments within each division. They include but may not be limited to 154.9050, 154.9350 and 155.4600 mhz.
The 157 mhz. frequencies you referenced typically are used in the SW VSP divisions bordering KY and/or WVA where the FCC restricted mobile inputs to 50 watts to protect previously licensed users in those two border states. There were multiple licenses issued over a period of years as STARS was being installed listing specific I/O fixed/mobile frequency combinations. STARS during that period still did not have sufficient new frequencies available for a statewide system installation. Some new frequencies were obtained from DOF and DGIF and a small spectrum section of 161 mhz, which was the old Marine Ship to Shore range. The STARS radio techs determined what frequencies were or were not used/reused and what may have resulted in a different available frequencies configuration for a particular STARS site.
In my opinion, the best way to confirm what frequencies each STARS site actually uses, especially the more rural mountainous located sites, is at least annually drive to within reception range of the target STARS site and using a laptop running Pro96Com confirm each site of interest and provide update info from Pro96Com only and not speculation.
John
W4UVV
You are not the radio police. I found them and here they are-
(157.2250/161.8250 MHz, 157.2375/161.8375 MHz, 157.2500/161.8500 MHz, 157.2625/161.8625 MHz, 157.2750/161.8750 MHz, 157.2875/161.8875 MHz, 157.3000/161.9000 MHz, 157.3125/161.9125 MHz, 157.3250/161.9250 MHz, 157.3375/161.9375 MHz, 157.3500/161.9500 MHz, and 157.4000/162.0000 MHz
157.2000/161.8000 MHz, 157.2125/161.8125 MHz, 157.3625/161.9625 MHz, 157.3750/161.9750 MHz, and 157.3875/161.9875 MHz
I am not sure why nobody has listed this in the DB. but I will try.
W4UVV
Member
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You're welcome. I thought it would be helpful to provide a little STARS history as to why selected 157 mhz. frequencies additionally are STARS mobile input frequencies. I previously should have clarified the 157 mhz. frequencies source as to being the converse part of the old Marine Ship to Shore/Shore to Ship 161 mhz. frequency range which was heavily used for mainly phone patch calls into the mid-late 90s. When cellphones became hand held devices, that was the end of that Marine radio service. Subsequently the FCC opened up that small section of the 157/161 mhz. range for other Land Mobile Services. Virginia requested new frequencies and the result was the selected 161/157 mhz. frequencies used today. However the 50 watt mobile input restriction would apply only to those STARS sites near the KY/WVA border and not to other STARS sites located more inland.
Thanks originally the STARS consultant and state licensing originating office (DGS) grossly underestimating a sufficient number of vhf frequencies needed for a statewide vhf radio system. After installations began the state had to make an emergency phone request to the FCC for more additional vhf frequencies. It was sheer luck at that time there were some unused 151-152 paging/other service frequencies available. Hence a FCC letter authorization for Virginia to use selected 151/152 mhz. frequencies which you will not find when doing a FCC General Menu Search. Subsequently some 158/159 mhz. licenses for STARS also were letter authorized. But the shortfall for new STARS installation vhf frequencies continued and lasted for years with VSP frustration.
That frustration may have manifested last year or possibly this year as a significant change in the state's fiscal year budget. I recall reading it. VSP now is a separate entity solely responsible for all VSP FCC license related actions. Such separation from the Dept. General Services (DGS) oversight required additional personnel being reassigned or new hires required to VSP. A subsequent financial "payback" from VSP to DGS has to be made for the appropriate related DGS positions lost to VSP...... similar to a divorce.
JohnW4UVV.
There are instances where monitoring an input can be helpful.
We have a 700mhz trs here in PA dedicated to state aircraft. Monitoring the input side is the only way to hear any activity in parts of the state. The tower sites are optimized for reception by aircraft, so they can be hard to monitor in many areas on the ground. 10 sites cover the entire state. Unfortunately, my BCD436 is the only scanner I have that covers th entire input range.
On several occasions I have been able to at least hear the helo/plane side of a conversation when they were working near me but affiliated with a tower 50-100 miles away.
We have a 700mhz trs here in PA dedicated to state aircraft. Monitoring the input side is the only way to hear any activity in parts of the state. The tower sites are optimized for reception by aircraft, so they can be hard to monitor in many areas on the ground. 10 sites cover the entire state. Unfortunately, my BCD436 is the only scanner I have that covers th entire input range.
On several occasions I have been able to at least hear the helo/plane side of a conversation when they were working near me but affiliated with a tower 50-100 miles away.
I think it's always handy to know the inputs. Given all the problems with P25 simulcast, I wouldn't mind having a conventional bank full of inputs for when there's stuff going on nearby. In fact, it'd interesting to see if this could be done with Phase II as well as Phase I. But I digress...
Usually with a trunked system we look at the table and pretty much take the inputs for granted. With STARS, I'm not positive that everything matches the tables. I think the last time I looked at them, the tables indicated either 0.9 or 9.0 MHz as frequency offset. In the past, I thought I'd seen 4.5 MHz. Of course, the ex-marine channels should be 4.6 MHz. I was told some years ago that there were supposed to be some extra or extended data packets in STARS for the purpose of dealing with the inconsistent offsets inherent in VHF-hi repeater pairs. Can anyone enlighten us on this?
73/Allen (N4JRI)
Usually with a trunked system we look at the table and pretty much take the inputs for granted. With STARS, I'm not positive that everything matches the tables. I think the last time I looked at them, the tables indicated either 0.9 or 9.0 MHz as frequency offset. In the past, I thought I'd seen 4.5 MHz. Of course, the ex-marine channels should be 4.6 MHz. I was told some years ago that there were supposed to be some extra or extended data packets in STARS for the purpose of dealing with the inconsistent offsets inherent in VHF-hi repeater pairs. Can anyone enlighten us on this?
73/Allen (N4JRI)
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HankFrank
Member
P25 systems have the option for what's know as Explicit Offset on each site channel, which you generally only see on VHF/UHF. Pro96Com should tell you in the decoded trunking data whether a system is setup for explicit offset or not on a particular channel/frequency.
In Implicit mode the site controller only sends the RX Channel in the data stream and a traditional fixed offset is always used. This is common on 800mhz as we all know.
In Explicit mode the controller will sent both the input and output channels in the data stream. More or less required on VHF systems.
In Implicit mode the site controller only sends the RX Channel in the data stream and a traditional fixed offset is always used. This is common on 800mhz as we all know.
In Explicit mode the controller will sent both the input and output channels in the data stream. More or less required on VHF systems.
Not to dump on this view but STARS doesn't have simulcast issues like on the 7/800 MHz systems. STARS however is a MULTICAST system broadcasting the same transmission over different frequencies throughout the state wherever a radio is affiliated.
Sorry if I seemed to imply that STARS is simulcast. I am well aware that it's not. My point is that input freqs can be a valuable monitoring tool for all kinds of systems, and that there's nothing wrong with Huntsman2 pursuing that information.
73/Allen (N4JRI)
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