P25 phase 2 hard to track?

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mdsxfire

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I live about 1/4 mile or so away from the tower my counties p25 system is on and am having a pretty hard time keeping the scanner receiving the control channel consistently. I’ve tried attenuating the scanner which makes it worse. God forbid I touch the scanner to look at it, it goes back to NFM and then takes minutes to grab control channel again. This system is 700mhz, 2 other systems Im trying to monitor both also phase 2 one 500mhz the other 700mhz with sites maybe 3 miles away have the same issue. Any ideas??
 

hiegtx

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I live about 1/4 mile or so away from the tower my counties p25 system is on and am having a pretty hard time keeping the scanner receiving the control channel consistently. I’ve tried attenuating the scanner which makes it worse. God forbid I touch the scanner to look at it, it goes back to NFM and then takes minutes to grab control channel again. This system is 700mhz, 2 other systems Im trying to monitor both also phase 2 one 500mhz the other 700mhz with sites maybe 3 miles away have the same issue. Any ideas??
Which systems, which county?

Phase II is not, in itself, hard to track with a correctly programmed scanner. However, if you are that close to a tower, the scanner could be overloading, especially if there are other users of the tower, such as another trunked system or it also hosts a cellphone site.

Also, while you are close to that particular site, is the system simulcast? If so, there may be other sites in operation that causes distortion. If the site close to you is overloading your scanner (what model scanner, and what antenna is being used?), that could affect your reception of the other two systems.
 

marksmith

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The previous response is accurate, and if you have a simulcast site, which many phase 2 systems are, you are likely receiving from 2 towers and getting simulcast distortion.

Attenuation, lousier antenna (to only get 1 tower), are two common solutions, including using a paper clip for an antenna if you are under a mile from closest tower.

The other issue is that 700mz systems are very much subject to radio placement. Moving the radio a few inches one way or another can cause a huge difference

Mark
536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
 

boatbod

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Commercial scanners generally do a pretty poor job of tracking QPSK simulcast. If you are monitoring a P25P2 site from a fixed (non mobile) location you might experiment with the free OP25 software and a $25 RTL dongle. It takes more effort to set up (particularly if you don't know linux) but the result is well worth the effort. You can even run it on a $35 Raspberry PI3 if you don't have a Linux PC to use.
 

troymail

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If you're that close to the tower, monitoring THAT specific site, and still having trouble with reception/locking onto the control channel, I'm betting the system is other than Motorola.

There may not be all that much you can do to improve things with your scanner but that depends on at least two major questions (that have already been asked):

  • what model scanner are you using?
  • what system and sites are we talking about?

For more details on what others have said, read this over (assuming you haven't already):
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast_digital_distortion

However, the issues potentially go beyond what this discusses --

EDIT: Looking at other threads, I now suspect you have a bcd325p2 and are trying to monitor Middlesex County (RRDB says is a single simulcast site 700/800Mhz system) - is that the case? Middlesex DOES appear to be a non-Motorola system (it appears to be a Harris system) and most of my scanners have a terrible time receiving these systems. My PSR-500 won't hold the control channel at all and others only do slightly better. In contrast, my Unication G5 has no problem receiving the exact same systems from the exact same location (and actually do well from most any location in the area).

The other possibility looks like Somerset County - which seems to be a two site (500Mhz and 700Mhz) Motorola simulcast system.
 
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marksmith

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If you're that close to the tower, monitoring THAT specific site, and still having trouble with reception/locking onto the control channel, I'm betting the system is other than Motorola.

There may not be all that much you can do to improve things with your scanner but that depends on at least two major questions (that have already been asked):

  • what model scanner are you using?
  • what system and sites are we talking about?

For more details on what others have said, read this over (assuming you haven't already):
https://wiki.radioreference.com/index.php/Simulcast_digital_distortion

However, the issues potentially go beyond what this discusses --

EDIT: Looking at other threads, I now suspect you have a bcd325p2 and are trying to monitor Middlesex County (RRDB says is a single simulcast site 700/800Mhz system) - is that the case? Middlesex DOES appear to be a non-Motorola system (it appears to be a Harris system) and most of my scanners have a terrible time receiving these systems. My PSR-500 won't hold the control channel at all and others only do slightly better. In contrast, my Unication G5 has no problem receiving the exact same systems from the exact same location (and actually do well from most any location in the area).

The other possibility looks like Somerset County - which seems to be a two site (500Mhz and 700Mhz) Motorola simulcast system.
I am within a mile of 2 towers of a p25 Motorola system for the neighboring county. It is nearly impossible to monitor stationary because both towers get a strong signal here, even though the signal is directional away from me.

Using a lousy or nearly no antenna, can barely get reception. Get in car and mobile receives fine one quarter mile either direction, as one or other tower falls out of strongest coverage.

P25 systems are generally very directional to their coverage areas and designed not to be heard outside of jurisdiction.

Mark
536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
 

mdsxfire

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Yes you are correct, Middlesex county and it’s a Harris system, and the other is the Somerset county system. I was looking at the unication g5 but they are not phase 2 compatible yet are they. If so I will just buy one of those they are smaller more portable and have a much more friendly looking display
 

willne1

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I know this is an old thread but I bet this is the reason I can't pick up the town I live in. I live 1/2 mile from my local PD tower and they share with the next town over which is maybe 2 miles away. I'm using a 436 and I can't get anything from my local PD P25 system. What do you think? I've been going crazy trying for a week now with no luck.
 

marksmith

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I know this is an old thread but I bet this is the reason I can't pick up the town I live in. I live 1/2 mile from my local PD tower and they share with the next town over which is maybe 2 miles away. I'm using a 436 and I can't get anything from my local PD P25 system. What do you think? I've been going crazy trying for a week now with no luck.
The SDS100 has solved the problem I described above a year ago. Simulcast distortion eliminated on this radio. 436 still incapable of receiving.

Mark
SDS100/536/436/ws1095/996p2/996xt/325p2/396xt/psr800/396t/HP-1/HP-2 & others
 

willne1

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I'm a newbie, from what I described here does it sound like a simulcast problem? I guess I'll have to go for a little ride with my scanner and see what happens. If this is the case then I spent a lot of money to learn about simulcasting :(
 

troymail

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I'm a newbie, from what I described here does it sound like a simulcast problem? I guess I'll have to go for a little ride with my scanner and see what happens. If this is the case then I spent a lot of money to learn about simulcasting :(

Is it this system?

https://www.radioreference.com/apps/db/?sid=8384

If so, I'd put simulcast at the top of the list as possible issues - but there could very well be other reasons.

The first thing I would do is drive to/near one of the simulcast towers - if the signal and reception greatly improves, then it is a simulcast issue. If not, it could be something else.
 

willne1

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Yes troymail that is the system I'm trying to receive. I took a ride to the tower near me as you suggested and it seemed to be working a lot better. I guess I'll just have to move :)
 

willne1

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I didn't start this thread but I got much appreciated help as a newbie from some members after I posted in this thread and I wanted to do an update. After playing around with my 436 I believe that instead of a Simulcast problem that it was mainly a reception problem as it seems that Unless I'm upstairs I can only get two bars on my meter at best. Also when I'm watching my meter for a signal I do get some local broadcasts sorry for any confusion I guess I have a lot to learn about Digital Scanning and I am now using a Remtronix 800Mhz antenna.
 
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