Trunking question

I'm getting a new scanner soon, WS1065, and am curious about trunking. I wanted to at least check out the MOSWIN which is a P25 Phase II system.

My previous scanner that utilized trunking was a Pro-95 which only utilized analog trunking. Those days are long gone at least around here.

I remember with that one you could either monitor trunked or non-trunked systems.

That brings to mind a couple of questions.

Can I monitor the Missouri Statewide Wireless Interoperable Network (I'm right outside of St. Louis City in Illinois), and my local Madison County, IL frequencies at the same time, or am I limited to one or the other like with the Pro-95?

I do plan to program with some sort of computerized solution, especially for the MOSWIN. I am assuming for a trunked system EVERY frequency has to be input? There seems to be literally dozens of frequencies for such a system. I didn't count all of them but that has to use quite a few of the 1800 available for the WS1065.

Thanks for answering these newbie questions.

glen4cindy said:

I'm getting a new scanner soon, WS1065, and am curious about trunking. I wanted to at least check out the MOSWIN which is a P25 Phase II system.

Click to expand...

It looks like you are lucky that most of the system does not use the Phase 2 (TDMA) mode according to the database. It is important to note that the WS1065 will not be able to monitor talkgroups if they are operating in Phase 2 (TDMA) mode, and that it may be possible for any talkgroup to switch to that mode at any time.

glen4cindy said:

Can I monitor the Missouri Statewide Wireless Interoperable Network (I'm right outside of St. Louis City in Illinois), and my local Madison County, IL frequencies at the same time, or am I limited to one or the other like with the Pro-95?

Click to expand...

You can monitor as many systems and frequencies that the scanner can hold at the same time. The WS1065 will take turns checking each system and conventional frequencies. Keep in mind that it takes time to check everything, so adding a lot of systems and conventional frequencies can cause the scanner to take longer to cycle through everything.

glen4cindy said:

I do plan to program with some sort of computerized solution, especially for the MOSWIN. I am assuming for a trunked system EVERY frequency has to be input? There seems to be literally dozens of frequencies for such a system. I didn't count all of them but that has to use quite a few of the 1800 available for the WS1065.

Click to expand...

Only certain systems like EDACS and LTR need all frequencies to be programmed. For most P25 systems, all that needs to be programmed into the scanner are the primary control channels. Most systems send out information on the control channel that will allow the scanner to automatically figure out which frequencies it needs to change to. It is also recommended that you program the alternate control channels as sites can switch their control channel frequency at anytime. This is especially true for non-Motorola P25 systems as they are often designed to frequently rotate control channels.

Spitfire8520 said:

It looks like you are lucky that most of the system does not use the Phase 2 (TDMA) mode according to the database. It is important to note that the WS1065 will not be able to monitor talkgroups if they are operating in Phase 2 (TDMA) mode, and that it may be possible for any talkgroup to switch to that mode at any time.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the VERY helpful information.

I opted for the WS1065 over the WS1095 for a balance of features and price.

I might end up opting out of St. Louis listening anyway at least at this point.

I have an outdoor discone antenna but I do not remember if it is designed for 800Mhz + or not.

I might be too far away for much of the traffic even at 10 minutes from downtown St. Louis.

Plus, according to the database, another system in the county, St. Louis Area Trunked Emergency Radio (SLATER), **IS** using Project 25 Phase II TDMA.

glen4cindy said:

Plus, according to the database, another system in the county, St. Louis Area Trunked Emergency Radio (SLATER), **IS** using Project 25 Phase II TDMA.

Click to expand...

The Misc System Information section for SLATER says, "SLATER system is Phase II ready and broadcasts or advertises Phase II channel slots but all talkgroups are only using Phase I." A system can support P25 Phase 2, but it does not have to use that mode.

You can see what mode each talkgroup uses by looking under the Mode column for each talkgroup. D indicates that the talkgroup is digital, and for P25 it tends to mean it is not using TDMA. T means it is using TDMA mode. Keep in mind that the database is maintained by volunteers and updated with information from other users, so it might not always be up-to-date.

P25 is an interesting beast. Control channels are all you need to program as the control channel will tell the radio where to go. With Motorola systems you’ll ideally want to program 4 channels, the primary, and the three alternates. With a Harris system, all channels at the site are capable of being alternates so just keep that in mind (but Motorola only allows for 3 alternates).

Now, you can do some fun things with your scanner. Once you locate the active control channel you can set the scanner to output CC info over the USB interface and use Pro96com or Unitrunker to gather site info (System ID, WACN, zone, alternate control channels, adjacent sites with their active control channels, active patches, affiliations, etc) and expand your personal database.

Now just an observation from someone who recently got into scanning but who is actually one of the guys who keeps these systems running…the way these scanners scan, defies subscriber logic. I say that in terms of, large systems where you are dealing with dozens of sites you really have to break down the amount of sites you have programmed in as the scanner scans the control channels for all the sites programmed in the system and sees if a talk group of interest is in use. So if you have 100 sites in a system programmed, the scanner will scan all control channels for each site and you may miss traffic you are interested in locally.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This is going to be a lot more to learn.

Removing the St. Louis area completely from my realm of listening, I have noticed something I was overlooking before in the Madison County, IL database.

References such as: "Most Police communications are on talkgroups 7921 - 7925 (since 5/17/09)" and "Fire / EMS Dispatch / Operations on talkgroups 8176 - 8178; along with Mutual Aid on Glen Carbon/Maryville/Troy talkgroups."

If I look at the "STARCOM21 Statewide Illinois Project 25 Phase II" link it's a GIANT table with lots of cities and loads of frequencies listed.

Since I am planning on using the database to automatically program my scanner, is it going to program it properly for me? I've not had a chance to look at much yet as this is a Christmas present that I have asked for but my wife had me do the ordering so I know it's the one that is coming.

From this huge table I would not want cities like Chicago programmed which is like 300 miles away.

Information here said I would want control frequencies. I'm hopeful the automated programming will use the right ones.

Thanks again in advance.

glen4cindy said:

This is going to be a lot more to learn.

Removing the St. Louis area completely from my realm of listening, I have noticed something I was overlooking before in the Madison County, IL database.

References such as: "Most Police communications are on talkgroups 7921 - 7925 (since 5/17/09)" and "Fire / EMS Dispatch / Operations on talkgroups 8176 - 8178; along with Mutual Aid on Glen Carbon/Maryville/Troy talkgroups."

If I look at the "STARCOM21 Statewide Illinois Project 25 Phase II" link it's a GIANT table with lots of cities and loads of frequencies listed.

Since I am planning on using the database to automatically program my scanner, is it going to program it properly for me? I've not had a chance to look at much yet as this is a Christmas present that I have asked for but my wife had me do the ordering so I know it's the one that is coming.

From this huge table I would not want cities like Chicago programmed which is like 300 miles away.

Information here said I would want control frequencies. I'm hopeful the automated programming will use the right ones.

Thanks again in advance.

Click to expand...

Assuming that the scanner you're getting is still the WS1065, you can use your Premium Subscriber membership and appropriate software to download whatever you want.

When you go to import the desired talkgroups and site frequencies, selecting Starcom21 as the system, during the import process you'll see all the sites on the system, statewide, plus all talkgroups that are in the database. However, during the import, you can specify which sites to import, and also specify which talkgroups you are interested in. Since the sites are listed by name, not location, you'll want to be sure to get the ones in your immediate area, and not the whole state.

One thing you can do is pull up the system in the database. Look at the page. Just above the section that lists the various sites, you'll see a link for RR Locations. That will generate a map showing where in the state the sites are located. Zoom in on the map to your county. Then, as you hover your mouse over the the location symbols, you can see the name of each site. You would then select only your local sites for your import. One of your options in software is to import 'control channels only'. Usually, there are no more than four primary and alternate control channels for each site. The import process will let you import up to 32 frequencies, which is 8 sites, assuming four frequencies per site. (That's the limit the scanner can handle for a system. If you need more than 32 frequencies, for additional sites, you would have to create one or more additional systems, and import the related talkgroups as well.)

For the talkgroups you need, those are grouped by counties, state agencies (subdivided into districts), and specific users. Select only the ones you want, deselecting (unchecking)all of of the others that you do NOT want.