Should I upgrade my HF radio

I currently own a Kenwood TS-430S and an Icom 718. I am a casual operator and my main interest is DX, WAS, collecting QSL cards etc. I am not a contester and work SSB, eventually I might learn CW. and explore AM. I use the TS430s as my QTH station and the Icom 718 for portable, field day etc. I am thinking about selling both radios and getting the new Icom 7300. this would make it my only HF rig. There is nothing wrong with the radios I have, my main reason for wanting to do this is the more modern tech in the 7300, band scope, touch screen, etc. it just looks like a really fun rig to operate. Does this sound like a good idea or should I just be satisfied with what I have? I just wanted some opinions on this idea, as maybe there are some things I haven't thought about in doing this.

Do it! Do it! Do it!!!

The Icom 7300 is a $2,500 class radio that only cost about $1,200. You will be amazed at its performance, quiet background noise and other nice things that come with a higher end radio. The spectrum display is not the biggest, but it works very well and can be configured to look much better than the advertising pictures like this: http://webpages.charter.net/n9ewo2/ic7300_scope.pdf
prcguy

ScannerBoots said:

I currently own a Kenwood TS-430S and an Icom 718. I am a casual operator and my main interest is DX, WAS, collecting QSL cards etc. I am not a contester and work SSB, eventually I might learn CW. and explore AM. I use the TS430s as my QTH station and the Icom 718 for portable, field day etc. I am thinking about selling both radios and getting the new Icom 7300. this would make it my only HF rig. There is nothing wrong with the radios I have, my main reason for wanting to do this is the more modern tech in the 7300, band scope, touch screen, etc. it just looks like a really fun rig to operate. Does this sound like a good idea or should I just be satisfied with what I have? I just wanted some opinions on this idea, as maybe there are some things I haven't thought about in doing this.

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Memories, digital processing, and lcd displays are all cheap technology that's why new radios use em.
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I would much rather have a better front end and MECHANICAL filters than all the gimmicks and pretty lights myself
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But the Icom 7300 beats all but a few radios of older design like you mention, and they cost a lot more money for generally less performance and features. The highest performing HF radios ever tested to date are either direct sampling SDR or a superhet with down conversion to low IF and SDR for everything else. Its not cheap technology, its the best of high tech.

What radio would you recommend that will outperform a 7300 for less than $1,200 new? If you do a little research you won't have an answer.
prcguy

And another thing, I just sold off a couple of very high end military radio's, a late model Harris RF-5000 series HF 400w base station and manpack. To my knowledge these were the best performing military radios in the US inventory, the base station cost $50k new and the manpack was about $25k.

Both were SDR radios, superhet with downconversion and SDR took care of variable IF BW, AGC, demodulation of many waveforms and all other typical receiver functions. They had LCD displays and memories and digital signal processing. These are being used on battlefields as we speak and you are complaining that SDR like the 7300 is just gimmicks and pretty lights???

And another thing still, my Icom 7300 out performs the $50k Harris RF-5000 in every way except I can't leave the 7300 outside in the rain or snow like the Harris.

MOTEX said:

Memories, digital processing, and lcd displays are all cheap technology that's why new radios use em.
.....
I would much rather have a better front end and MECHANICAL filters than all the gimmicks and pretty lights myself
.......

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ScannerBoots said:

Does this sound like a good idea or should I just be satisfied with what I have? I just wanted some opinions on this idea, as maybe there are some things I haven't thought about in doing this.

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I agree with prcguy's recommendation. However, be prepared for a bit of a learning curve. Get plenty of sleep, and put on a fresh pot of coffee! It's like moving from the old crank telephone to a smartphone! :wink:

One of the things that appeals to me about the 7300 is that in the videos ive seen it looks very intuitive to use. It kind of reminds me of my iPhone in that regard. Besides learning new bells and whistles is part of the fun of getting a new rig. I bought both of my rigs used, the icom is menu driven, but no more difficult to use that my Ft 7800's or ft 8800. In fact the most difficult radio I have to use is my ft 60 but that's probably because I rarely use it.

I took my 7300 out of the box and was on the air in about 1 minute. I didn't open the manual for a couple of days because the radio's touch screen was like an operating manual. Touch something and a sub menu comes up with all the options you need. Very easy radio to operate.

Not only does it have a very good performing receiver, it out talks all other HF radios I've ever owned just with the stock hand mic. With a couple of known mic adjustments it gets louder, fuller and punchier sounding than much more expensive radios can using lots of outboard processing and expensive mics.

Nearly every time I'm on the air with it someone asks what radio I'm using because it sounds so good. I wish I could get my K3 or my TenTecs or any of my other HF rigs to sound like the 7300, but they just can't do it without distorting or generating unpleasant artifacts. I'm looking at my K3 right now with an Electro Voice RE-27 attached and the internal 8-band EQ and compression in the K3 tweaked every way possible and it doesn't come close to the 7300 with stock mic.

Got an Icom 7610 arriving on Tuesday, hopefully it will sound similar to the 7300 on transmit.
prcguy

iMONITOR said:

I agree with prcguy's recommendation. However, be prepared for a bit of a learning curve. Get plenty of sleep, and put on a fresh pot of coffee! It's like moving from the old crank telephone to a smartphone! :wink:

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To answer the OP's questions, I think he'd enjoy the 7300 as a radio for home use in the way described. I've liked mine a lot since I got it in September. The band scope makes it easy to find signals and I'll second the comments about how good the audio is out of the box, or with some minor adjustments. So far my use has been only using SSB, FM, or AM. The built in tuner doesn't have quite the ability of the LDG one I use with my 7100 but it's operation is pretty good.

I have not yet used it for mobile or portable use. I have a IC-7100 for mobile use that spends a lot of time in my house next to the 7300, where I mostly use it for VHF/UHF. I have used it for some HF and DStar over HF contacts and I miss the bandscope and built in tuner that the 7300 has. I ran some tests to see how long my 12v battery back could run the 7100 with the output turned down to 10 watts and it's likely I will use it for some portable use in the future while leaving my 7300 at home. The 7300 doesn't work out as well for in vehicle use as the 7100 with it's remote head does.

I have a FT817ND that I use for weekly QRP for a park operations. I mention this because you said portable ops in your usage examples. Even if you turn down the power on the 7300 (to 10 watts like I do on the 7100 when using a battery) you'll want to make sure you can supply it a good 13.8 volt supply of sufficient amps for reliable operations.

In summary I think it's an outstanding radio for home use that can be used mobile and portable with some considerations.

IC 7300

The radio is a tour of new technology. It does so much.

Upgrade? To what? You have a pair of excellent radios there. Unless you want to try a whole new way of operating and go the SDR route, you have about as good a station as you can get.

If it amounts to anything, my vote is with Dave NF2G. Are you looking for a new toy, ScannerB, or do you have an actual purpose for this new Icom?
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I say that as one who is constantly aware of the parade of technology that can tend to overwhelm. The lastest and the best- but knowing that if its made it to market, its already dated. Is that $1200's really burning a hole in your pocket?.. or is it better spent on something else?
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Case in point-- we recently received two Harris RF5800's on an extend'd loan- to evaluate. The thought being, if we like them we will contract for others.
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These are the ultimate in HF multiband radios- HF SSB- VHF modes- they can do anything! The problem is, they can do TOO much- and while I am in awe of their technology - I can't find any reason, economically or otherwise, to purchase them. We have older HF radios that are much easier to use and work just fine for our purposes. (I say easier, for altho we are a highly RF oriented facility- some of our operatives are anything but clever when it comes to 2-way radios--- "yes, you push that button- it will turn it on." )
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If you really want it, and can afford the Icom-- and see it as a improvment over what you now have (remembering the IC7300 is already 'old' if is out there on the market- technology is so cruel that way) --- then buy it.
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Personally?-- my ham radios are dinosaurs- IC 725's and 728's... and an old veteran and world traveling friend, a 720. For what I want of ham radios these work great.
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..................................CF

I second NF2G and Coyote,

If you don't have an issue with the older radios then stick with them and don't waste the money.

I have a Kenwood TS690S, vintage 1992, and was looking at upgrading to something new for reasons that now I can't justify.

I was fortunate to borrow first an Icom IC7300 and then an Elecraft K3s from co-workers to evaluate for 2 weeks each.

My only desire was to test out the dsp features of newer radio only because my city location is very noisy across the lower Hf range and my desire was to improve my receive end.

The Icom7300 was not acceptable in noise reduction; however while the K3S was better than the IC7300 in both CW/SSB transmission, in the end I stuck with the Kenwood TS690S and saved my money for aluminum and other things to make antennas.

I did however make a good decision to purchased a used DX engineering noise nulling box for 250 bucks and a aftermarket SDR/panadapter which I use as a spectrum display connected to the TS690S IF.

With the DX Eng box I was able to achieve the degree of noise reduction that I was trying to achieve with the old TS690S and the panadapter gives me a pseudo 2nd receiver for the TS690S.

I really liked the Elecraft K3s over the icom for both ssb/cw/rtty use but since there wasn't a justifiable reason to upgrade to a new radio over the TS690S I stuck with my trusty old TS690S and never looked back at my decision.

NF2G you made me think long and hard about this. Specifically why do I want a new radio?
Would getting rid of my two radios and buying an IC 7300 up the fun level of my operating?
In all honesty the answer to that question is,”maybe.” In my opinion that answer is not worth spending $1300 for a new radio, so for now I think I’m going to stick with what I have and in the future if I NEED a new radio then I’ll get the latest and greatest that I can afford. I sometimes forget that in the end it’s all about wanting what you’ve got, not getting what you want.

ScannerBoots - If "eventually I might learn CW. and explore AM" is your primary "new modes" interest in amateur radio... you're ready to go. No need for a new radio. HOWEVER, if you have an even REMOTE interest in the wildly popular digital mode FT8, followed closely by PSK... you can still do those things with your existing radios. You just need to
- Decide which external sound card / modem device you'll use and order it. Your existing radios need these external interfaces to do these modes.
- Make sure you get the correct cables with it
- Put the extra boxes and stuff that you receive on your spacious operating table / bench / shelf (you have lots of room, right?)
- Download the software and install
- Futz with the multiple cables and software settings for a few hours.
- Couldn't get it to work. Turns out wrong cables... maybe some setting.
- Order different cables and wait for them to arrive
- More futzing with cables and interfacing settings
The process steps for the IC-7300 are listed below -
- Download the USB driver from Icom and install
- Dowlnoad the digital mode software you want to use (e.g. WSJT-X, FLDIGI)
- Connect a USB cable between your radio and computer
You're done. And in addition to the aforementioned digital modes, you can do RTTY as well with FLDIGI. But... maybe you have no interest in any of this....

I don't think its up to anyone to tell the OP what he needs based on if his current radio is working ok. I say buy what you want and have fun with it.

I recently bought an Icom 7300 and the very last thing I "need" is another stupid HF radio, but here I sit waiting for Fed-X to deliver my new Icom 7610 sometime today. I don't need it and I have radios that have better specs, but the bottom line is, I want it.

As for mm and his TS690S, I ran a TS690S for many years and can tell you an Icom 7300 will hear things a 690 cannot. I am also very familiar with the Harris RF-5800 series radios that CF is playing with and can say an Icom 7300 has better receiver specs and will sound much better on transmit than the Harris on HF, which cost well over 10X as much. You just can't leave the Icom out in the rain or snow like the Harris.
prcguy

mm said:

I second NF2G and Coyote,

If you don't have an issue with the older radios then stick with them and don't waste the money.

I have a Kenwood TS690S, vintage 1992, and was looking at upgrading to something new for reasons that now I can't justify.

I was fortunate to borrow first an Icom IC7300 and then an Elecraft K3s from co-workers to evaluate for 2 weeks each.

My only desire was to test out the dsp features of newer radio only because my city location is very noisy across the lower Hf range and my desire was to improve my receive end.

The Icom7300 was not acceptable in noise reduction; however while the K3S was better than the IC7300 in both CW/SSB transmission, in the end I stuck with the Kenwood TS690S and saved my money for aluminum and other things to make antennas.

I did however make a good decision to purchased a used DX engineering noise nulling box for 250 bucks and a aftermarket SDR/panadapter which I use as a spectrum display connected to the TS690S IF.

With the DX Eng box I was able to achieve the degree of noise reduction that I was trying to achieve with the old TS690S and the panadapter gives me a pseudo 2nd receiver for the TS690S.

I really liked the Elecraft K3s over the icom for both ssb/cw/rtty use but since there wasn't a justifiable reason to upgrade to a new radio over the TS690S I stuck with my trusty old TS690S and never looked back at my decision.

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ScannerBoots said:

...my main reason for wanting to do this is the more modern tech in the 7300, band scope, touch screen, etc. it just looks like a really fun rig to operate.

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That is what it is all about, having fun. Perhaps make a more informed decision by driving over to Oakland one day. Head into the Ham Radio Outlet store and fiddle with the 7300. When you are done checking it out take a look at the Icom 7610, in particular the price tag. You will feel great about the price of the 7300 then.

Seriously though, based on your post the 7300 is a radio you may enjoy at home and portable. It is an upgrade indeed to your current equipment in many ways. Just consider carefully how you operate when reviewing the radio. For example, are there menu buttons you prefer on the front panel that are a step down in the menu or is direct frequency entry quick and easy?

Avoid any salesman trying to sell you the 7610. Not that it is a bad radio, but it is really for those that like to fiddle and enjoy contesting, etc. I am waiting a year to let things sort out on the 7610. I bleed too much when on the cutting edge of equipment purchases.

IC7610

I have been pricing this radio. If you buy it out of state you save sales tax. Look for free shipping, another hundred dollars off. Some stores are giving two hundred worth of free accessories.

prcguy said:

I recently bought an Icom 7300 and the very last thing I "need" is another stupid HF radio, but here I sit waiting for Fed-X to deliver my new Icom 7610 sometime today. I don't need it and I have radios that have better specs, but the bottom line is, I want it.

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I will be interested in your take on the 7610 after you have used it a while. I am happy with my current HF linup, mostly using my Yaesu FTdx5000D or my Flex-5000A when I am in the ham shack, or the FT-2000 when at the listening desk. However, I have been eyeballing the 7610, it intrigues me. Although I tend to like Yaesu it is clear to me that Icom has a bit of an edge right now when it comes to high performance HF for the ham market. If they do a DDC 78XX that could be quite the rig.

T!

IC 7610

They have reviews on youtube. Eham.net has over 25 reviews. Gigaparts will let you try a radio for 60 days if you buy their three-year warranty

The Yaesu 5000 is a couple of notches above the Icom 7610 in narrow spaced dynamic range testing, but when you get to the upper stratosphere of radios like these you may never see the difference. Personal preferences on other details will steer your purchase.

With some time on the new 7610 I can say its spectrum display is quite an upgrade from the 7300 in size and resolution. I also have it feeding a 40-42" monitor and I now use a yardstick on the huge S meters and give signal reports in inches and feet. To me the 7300 spectrum display is about the smallest I would be happy with and its not bad, but the 7610 can give you one huge main spectrum display or a smaller one for each receiver running side by side or stacked vertically. I don't think I would be happy with the spectrum display on the Yaesu 5000. In contrast the Elecraft P3 display on my K3 is the closest thing I've seen on a radio that resembles an actual HP type spectrum analyzer in display size, resolution and usefulness.

The noise reduction in the 7610 is better than the 7300 and one of the best I've used but the NR in a K3 beats everything. IF filters work great in the 7610 and with a little tweaking I was bringing out some signals that would be nearly impossible to hear with a fixed wide filter. Any good SDR radio can usually do this.

The transmit audio is fantastic. I copied known settings from my 7300 to the 7610 and it was very close and with a little more tweaking most people now say its a little better than the 7300 making it the best transmit audio I've ever used on any radio anywhere. Locals that helped me set it up just say "my gawd its loud, its just really loud but no distortion or angry sounds. Geeze that's really loud".

So my initial thoughts are the 7610 is a really really good radio with nothing bad to report yet. If the OP wants to up his fun factor several notches take a look at the 7610.
prcguy

Token said:

I will be interested in your take on the 7610 after you have used it a while. I am happy with my current HF linup, mostly using my Yaesu FTdx5000D or my Flex-5000A when I am in the ham shack, or the FT-2000 when at the listening desk. However, I have been eyeballing the 7610, it intrigues me. Although I tend to like Yaesu it is clear to me that Icom has a bit of an edge right now when it comes to high performance HF for the ham market. If they do a DDC 78XX that could be quite the rig.

T!

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