wakeandsnow
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Found a retailer in Alberta that sells G5 pagers but says they do not work with the AFRRCS system. Will that be possible or no?
G5 Pager use in Alberta
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troymail
Silent Key
Maybe someone in that area can confirm or deny but I do know that there are some P25 systems the G4/G5 won't work on.... At one point, I believed it was EF Johnson systems but over time, the problem appears more likely to be when a system does not send it's trunking table/bandplan information over the control channel (and/or is using the "default" or standard bandplan), the G4/G5 doesn't seem to work.
Did the retailer provided any other details?
omrail
Member
I would think it would its just not on the approved list for users
troymail
Silent Key
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
He means it likely works but is not on the approved radio list.
One work of caution, in order to listen to a given talk group, a radio must be affiliated to the site on the talk group you want to listen to.
For example Edmonton Fire dispatch. Outside of the Edmonton simulcast, you likely won’t hear that talk group on the Legal site.
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
I believe on the latest approved radio list the Uniication G4 or G5 is listed as an approved radio.
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
Alberta SolGen has a published list of approved subscriber radios. If it’s not on the list, it is not allowed to be used on the network. An example of this is the Kenwood TK series P25 radios. They are not approved, however the NX series is.
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davidzimmerman
Member
not allowed to be used on the network.?? the G5 don't work as a Subscriber radio so i'm lost?
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
Good lord. Did you read what I wrote?
I did not say that the G4/5 are not allowed to be used. If they are not on the approved list they are not approved for use.
As in they have not been tested and approved to operate as intended.
If an agency uses them, and they don’t work as intended, they could be held liable if it can be shown the pagers contributed to some sort of loss.
It also means that dealers authorized to sell/program radios in Alberta are not allowed to program them for AFRRCS.
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davidzimmerman
Member
i did read just did NOT understand the main problem sorry
troymail
Silent Key
I'm not following this 'approved' thing with regard to a G4 or G5....
kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
According to rev. 9.0 dated March 21/2017 of the approved radio list, the G4 has been tested and approved for use on AFRRCS.
If a radio is not listed on the approved radio list, it can not be used by a partner agancy on AFRRCS. What can’t you follow?
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kayn1n32008
ØÆSØ
If someone is looking to use a Unication pager as a receiver in Alberta, I would suggest using the G4. It has been tested to be compatible with AFRRCS.
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The Unication pagers are turning out to be quite popular on AFRRCS. I don't have any, but I do know of several agencies using them.
Don't read anything into which model(s) appear on the Permitted Radio List. That list is intended for devices which actually make a connection to the trunk system. Since a pager/receiver does not, I would not be surprised if pagers are removed in future releases of the list.
What I've heard from people who have them is they work just fine so long as you have your firmware and programming up to date and done right.
Again, I'm not familiar with the programming of the pager because I don't have one, but the comment made up above is correct - if there is no radio on "your site" tuned to the talkgroup(s) you want to hear, there's a very high probability that you will not pick up that talkgroup. Talkgroups are provided to sites when a radio tuned into that talkgroup signs on to that site. There do seem to be exceptions - I hear some activity via scanner that is on sites that are nowhere near that talkgroup's "location" - but the general rule still applies.
Note - if you are looking at a Unication pager because it is superior on simulcast, be aware that the only part of AFRRCS that uses simulcast is the Edmonton metro area. All other areas of the province are using the far less complicated and more sensible method involving only one path per frequency.
Don't read anything into which model(s) appear on the Permitted Radio List. That list is intended for devices which actually make a connection to the trunk system. Since a pager/receiver does not, I would not be surprised if pagers are removed in future releases of the list.
What I've heard from people who have them is they work just fine so long as you have your firmware and programming up to date and done right.
Again, I'm not familiar with the programming of the pager because I don't have one, but the comment made up above is correct - if there is no radio on "your site" tuned to the talkgroup(s) you want to hear, there's a very high probability that you will not pick up that talkgroup. Talkgroups are provided to sites when a radio tuned into that talkgroup signs on to that site. There do seem to be exceptions - I hear some activity via scanner that is on sites that are nowhere near that talkgroup's "location" - but the general rule still applies.
Note - if you are looking at a Unication pager because it is superior on simulcast, be aware that the only part of AFRRCS that uses simulcast is the Edmonton metro area. All other areas of the province are using the far less complicated and more sensible method involving only one path per frequency.
Don't listen to Jay as he has no idea about anything Edmonton. All that will do it get you burnt with bad advice. He should stick to things that he knows about .. that being his part of the province. Kind of like his denial that encryption is a big deal, shows how much he pushes his agenda here.
Actually Jay is bang on with his statement. Simulcast in Edmonton hasn't turned out the way they wanted. The users that pushed for it are now finding the coverage still doesn't compare to the existing EDACS system.
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troymail
Silent Key
Who said anything about a partner agency (other than you)? The user was only asking if anyone know if the G4 or G5 would receive the system. "Connecting to the network" has nothing to do with the G4 or G5 (or a scanner for that matter).
Thanks Jay - what I read above regarding "connection to" (affiliating with) any given system has absolutely nothing to do with a G4 or G5 as they, like may other monitoring options are simply passive receivers that do no need to "connect to" a network.
This may or may not be true - I'd be concerned about the vendor mentioned in Post #1 as I have found several systems (usually non-Motorola) where the G4 and G5 just do not work. A good test for this problem - program a Whistler directly from the RRDB/library and if it works without any modifications, the G4/G5 will likely work. If you have to change the "Site Options" from "Autofill" (the default) to "Standard", the G4/G5 probably won't work. Of course, there may be other things that cause keep the G4/G5 from working but so far, I haven't found anything.
This is true of any receiver/scanner if/when only monitoring the local/closest site of any given system. The G4/G5 can only monitor one control channel/site at a time (it will not "scan" over multiple sites) like scanners can/do. Of course, it will look for a better control channel/site if/when the quality of the currently monitored CC drops below predetermined levels.
This is pretty important -- I've said many, many times - the G4/G5 is a great solution if fighting with simulcast issues. However, if the system/site(s) you want to monitor are not simulcast, I strong recommend sticking with you choice of scanner.
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The system in question was designed to be as "plain vanilla" as possible - it's mandated in the contract between the owner and builder. The owner did not want to lock any potential users into using a specific manufacturer's subscriber gear. Having said that, it is a Harris system, so there are a few things that are not 100% expected. The two things which might impact a Unication pager are that any frequency can be a control channel, which means there are something like 230 control channel frequencies for the system (it's a province-wide, 300+ site system); and that it has a non-"standard" bandplan (though that bandplan is uniform throughout every 700MHz site, and is announced on the CC).
If I had the $ handy, I would try out a Unication pager. It might be a low(er) cost alternative to outfitting every member of my agency with a two-way radio. Budgets have been tightened all over Alberta in recent years due to a slumping economy, and there just isn't enough funding (even with government grants) to hand out radios Oprah-style. I was able to get seven handhelds last year (for a 40-member agency). The Unication pager is about one-third the cost of the handhelds I went for, so it would be worth looking at.
troymail
Silent Key
Sounds like the G4/G5 would probably work just fine - I've used my G4/G5 on several Harris simulcast systems (which are really tough on scanners) - really makes me wonder about the vendor comment that was mentioned in the original question....
Like I said, I know of a number of agencies using them without any problems (that I'm aware of).
I have no idea who the vendor is that the OP mentioned, so I can't speak to that.
One more thing about the "Permitted Radio List" - the radios on that list have to be submitted by the manufacturer for testing. The province isn't going around and grabbing samples of everything under the sun to try them out. The onus is on the manufacturer to get their device(s) approved. That may be why only the G4 is listed and not the G5; there were a couple of handheld two-ways I was looking at when I was looking to buy last year, but their manufacturers had not submitted those particular models for testing, so they had not been vetted and authorized as permitted radios. Anyway, it's possible Unication only submitted a G4, and again as I said before, since a pager does not affiliate, and there's very little point to it being on the "permitted" list, maybe nobody wants to go through the motions of vetting a G5 (or any other strictly receive-only devices).
I have no idea who the vendor is that the OP mentioned, so I can't speak to that.
One more thing about the "Permitted Radio List" - the radios on that list have to be submitted by the manufacturer for testing. The province isn't going around and grabbing samples of everything under the sun to try them out. The onus is on the manufacturer to get their device(s) approved. That may be why only the G4 is listed and not the G5; there were a couple of handheld two-ways I was looking at when I was looking to buy last year, but their manufacturers had not submitted those particular models for testing, so they had not been vetted and authorized as permitted radios. Anyway, it's possible Unication only submitted a G4, and again as I said before, since a pager does not affiliate, and there's very little point to it being on the "permitted" list, maybe nobody wants to go through the motions of vetting a G5 (or any other strictly receive-only devices).
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