Hello. I am looking at getting a mobile for my truck and need help with the decision. So I have been looking at the Kenwood TM-D710G, Yaesu FTM-400XDR Or ICOM ID 5100A. We have equal amounts of D Star and Fusion repeaters in the area. I like the idea of having the ability to reach stations anywhere. Don’t know how much I’d use it tho. Cross Band repeat is a must but they all do that. Any do cross band better than the other? I’m interested in helping out at local events and volunteering with ARES groups. Not sure what they look for in equipment? But APRS is usually something important. Also durability. Reading reviews I’ve read multiple mic and screen issues being reported with the Yaesu? Any input would help. I’ve searched this topic for weeks and most results are tailored to the OP and didn’t help with my situation. Thanks.
Help with choosing radio 710, 400 or 5100
- Thread starter Mrplow285
- Start date
- Status
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Before I switched to all commercial gear, I went through Icom, Yaesu and Kenwood amateur radios.
Icom was good stuff, but the programming overly complex in my opinion. I had a lot of issues with Icom mics, both on the amateur and commercial side. On the commercial side, the PTT buttons used to fail pretty quick. On the amateur side, the mass of buttons on the mic made it cumbersome to use and too easy to accidentally make changes. Never had an issue with the radio itself, though. I have 90's era Icom commercial radios that are still running fine, although they are on 5 or 6 replacement mics/mic switches, etc.
Yaesu was aways good stuff. Programming was a bit easier to understand for me (again, my opinion). I had a few Yaesu mics fail. Again, the button clad mics were always a personal pet peeve of mine. To this day, I dislike the feature filled mics.
My favorite radios, by far, have been the Kenwood's, both commercial and amateur. I had the 710 for many years. I liked the display setup. The programming was fairly intuitive, and the radios worked well. I -really- liked their simplified microphones, built more like a commercial mic than the other brands. Never had one of their microphones fail on me. The bigger display on the 710 was welcome in a mobile environment. I've got a lot (450+) commercial Kenwood radios at work, and they've been really good.
Many years back I switched to commercial gear since it would allow me to use the same radio for work as play. After almost 30 years as an amateur, I found my needs have simplified over the years. I rarely use repeaters, rarely make random contacts. Usually simplex VHF works for me. Modern commercial radios have enough memory slots that adding all the simplex channels and more repeaters than I'll ever use is easy enough.
If I was going to buy another dual band amateur radio, I'd go with a Kenwood.
Personally, not sure I'd tie up a nice radio like that with doing APRS, but it works for some. If all you need to do is beacon out your position, there are a lot of simpler/cheaper ways to do that. If you need to display the position, again, lots of ways to do that, but the 710 makes it nice.
My dad is still running a Yaesu FT-7900 dual band radio that he bought probably 10 years ago. Mic sounds a bit crappy, but it works good enough.
Some things you should also consider along with the radio….
Doesn't matter how much you spend on a radio, if you don't install a good antenna, you're just spitting in the wind. Rather than buy a $400 radio and slap a $20 mag mount on the roof of your truck, I'd always recommend spending a bit less on the radio (if budget is an issue) and more on the antenna. The antenna will make a bigger impact on your experience. Far too often I see amateurs with nice radios hooked up to the cheesiest, crappiest, cheapest antenna they can find. Never understood the thinking behind that. If you are serious about amateur radio, do a proper install. Magnets belong on refrigerators, not antennas. Get a proper NMO mount permanently installed dead center of the roof of your truck and enjoy what a real antenna can do. Don't do half way installs mounted behind the cab, on the fender, glass mount, "disguise" antennas, low profile, etc. At minimum, get a decent name brand dual band antenna. Larsen is my personal favorite. You will never regret doing a proper antenna install. There are no good reasons to cut corners on your antenna install.
If APRS is your thing, make sure you consider the GPS antenna. The better the install you do on that, the better it's going to work.
Power for your radio(s) is important too. Just like the poor antenna choices I've seen, plugging your radio into the cigarette lighter plug is really not going to help. Tapping into -any- existing vehicle wiring is asking for issues. Run your radio power direct to the battery. No good reasons to cut corners on this.
The little speakers that most of these radios have are fine if you are in a quiet room. They suck if you are in a moving vehicle. Spend the $20 and purchase a good external speaker for your radio. It helps so much with intelligibility. It makes it easier to use the radios while mobile. It's easier to understand the radio traffic, and it makes it nice for being able to drive around on a nice day with your windows rolled down and still hear the radio. The larger speakers usually give much better dynamic range than the little speakers in the radios, it does so much to improve the audio.
Honestly, probably either of those 3 radios are going to serve you well. Brand loyalty is a thing amongst radio amateurs, and you'll likely get a lot of input on which is "best". The important part is you need to look at the entire system and do a proper job if you want them to work well. It's so much more than just which radio you decide to purchase.
Icom was good stuff, but the programming overly complex in my opinion. I had a lot of issues with Icom mics, both on the amateur and commercial side. On the commercial side, the PTT buttons used to fail pretty quick. On the amateur side, the mass of buttons on the mic made it cumbersome to use and too easy to accidentally make changes. Never had an issue with the radio itself, though. I have 90's era Icom commercial radios that are still running fine, although they are on 5 or 6 replacement mics/mic switches, etc.
Yaesu was aways good stuff. Programming was a bit easier to understand for me (again, my opinion). I had a few Yaesu mics fail. Again, the button clad mics were always a personal pet peeve of mine. To this day, I dislike the feature filled mics.
My favorite radios, by far, have been the Kenwood's, both commercial and amateur. I had the 710 for many years. I liked the display setup. The programming was fairly intuitive, and the radios worked well. I -really- liked their simplified microphones, built more like a commercial mic than the other brands. Never had one of their microphones fail on me. The bigger display on the 710 was welcome in a mobile environment. I've got a lot (450+) commercial Kenwood radios at work, and they've been really good.
Many years back I switched to commercial gear since it would allow me to use the same radio for work as play. After almost 30 years as an amateur, I found my needs have simplified over the years. I rarely use repeaters, rarely make random contacts. Usually simplex VHF works for me. Modern commercial radios have enough memory slots that adding all the simplex channels and more repeaters than I'll ever use is easy enough.
If I was going to buy another dual band amateur radio, I'd go with a Kenwood.
Personally, not sure I'd tie up a nice radio like that with doing APRS, but it works for some. If all you need to do is beacon out your position, there are a lot of simpler/cheaper ways to do that. If you need to display the position, again, lots of ways to do that, but the 710 makes it nice.
My dad is still running a Yaesu FT-7900 dual band radio that he bought probably 10 years ago. Mic sounds a bit crappy, but it works good enough.
Some things you should also consider along with the radio….
Doesn't matter how much you spend on a radio, if you don't install a good antenna, you're just spitting in the wind. Rather than buy a $400 radio and slap a $20 mag mount on the roof of your truck, I'd always recommend spending a bit less on the radio (if budget is an issue) and more on the antenna. The antenna will make a bigger impact on your experience. Far too often I see amateurs with nice radios hooked up to the cheesiest, crappiest, cheapest antenna they can find. Never understood the thinking behind that. If you are serious about amateur radio, do a proper install. Magnets belong on refrigerators, not antennas. Get a proper NMO mount permanently installed dead center of the roof of your truck and enjoy what a real antenna can do. Don't do half way installs mounted behind the cab, on the fender, glass mount, "disguise" antennas, low profile, etc. At minimum, get a decent name brand dual band antenna. Larsen is my personal favorite. You will never regret doing a proper antenna install. There are no good reasons to cut corners on your antenna install.
If APRS is your thing, make sure you consider the GPS antenna. The better the install you do on that, the better it's going to work.
Power for your radio(s) is important too. Just like the poor antenna choices I've seen, plugging your radio into the cigarette lighter plug is really not going to help. Tapping into -any- existing vehicle wiring is asking for issues. Run your radio power direct to the battery. No good reasons to cut corners on this.
The little speakers that most of these radios have are fine if you are in a quiet room. They suck if you are in a moving vehicle. Spend the $20 and purchase a good external speaker for your radio. It helps so much with intelligibility. It makes it easier to use the radios while mobile. It's easier to understand the radio traffic, and it makes it nice for being able to drive around on a nice day with your windows rolled down and still hear the radio. The larger speakers usually give much better dynamic range than the little speakers in the radios, it does so much to improve the audio.
Honestly, probably either of those 3 radios are going to serve you well. Brand loyalty is a thing amongst radio amateurs, and you'll likely get a lot of input on which is "best". The important part is you need to look at the entire system and do a proper job if you want them to work well. It's so much more than just which radio you decide to purchase.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
I understand.
The issue I've found locally is that there are so many digital "standards" in use by the amateur radio community, you'd have to have several radios to work all of them. If the amateur community ever picks a standard (unlikely) then I'd be in. Until then, I stick with analog.
Many amateur clubs are cliquish enough, add in their chosen digital mode, and it locks even more out. That's fine, but I don't see how it helps the hobby.
You'll never go wrong with a good analog radio. Any amateur group that talks of emergency communications should understand the importance of interoperability. Unfortunately the lure of cool radios often takes priority.
I have 2 Yaesu FT-90s that I use, and both have the original microphones and function like new. If Fusion is on your list, Yaesu is your only choice. I have D-Star, DMR, Fusion, and P25. D-Star is dead in my area, but I use the other modes, mostly DMR with my DVMega. Our club DMR repeater is still not up, and the DVMega even works mobile with my cell phone providing the 4G connection. The DVMega can also do D-Star and Fusion, giving you all three in one package.
I'll try to avoid going on my standard rant about amateur radio digital voice modes. Bottom line is that if you feel that you need a particular digital voice mode to carry out communications, then you need to get a radio that does that mode. If the group you want to talk to is mostly using DMR, D-STAR, or System Fusion, then you will need to buy a radio that does that mode. I'm not aware of any mobile radio built for the amateur radio market that has more than one mode. There have been rumors that a multi-mode radio was coming "real soon now", but nothing so far.
Of the radios you mention, the Icom is D-STAR, the Yaesu is System Fusion, and the Kenwood has no digital voice modes. Kenwood has a radio in their commercial line that will do DMR, NXDN, or P25, but it's very expensive and probably not what you are looking for.
mmckenna gave you a lot of good advice. If possible, travel to an amateur radio store so you can play with each of the radios on your list. The specifications of these radios are pretty consistent across the three major brands, but the user interfaces are very different.
Also, think about how you will mount the radio in your vehicle. All of the radios you mentioned have detachable control heads, so you will need someplace to put the RF deck and someplace to put the control head. You may also need to think about mic cable routing and an external speaker.
Of the radios you mention, the Icom is D-STAR, the Yaesu is System Fusion, and the Kenwood has no digital voice modes. Kenwood has a radio in their commercial line that will do DMR, NXDN, or P25, but it's very expensive and probably not what you are looking for.
mmckenna gave you a lot of good advice. If possible, travel to an amateur radio store so you can play with each of the radios on your list. The specifications of these radios are pretty consistent across the three major brands, but the user interfaces are very different.
Also, think about how you will mount the radio in your vehicle. All of the radios you mentioned have detachable control heads, so you will need someplace to put the RF deck and someplace to put the control head. You may also need to think about mic cable routing and an external speaker.
mmckenna, W9BU. those are very good points. I don't like the idea of being tied to a specific brand just for something i may or may not use. and the lack of standards was also concerning. I think this narrows down my choice. still one week before i can make it to the store but I think the Kenwood would be a good start and keep me busy in the hobby as well. thanks
I like your point with the standards. Never understood why it couldn’t be standardized. As well as being stuck to one brand of radio. Thanks for the tips. Narrowed it down for sure. Thinking the Kenwood is the way to go. Won’t be able to make it to the store for a week so will still have some time to sleep on it.
I think the general opinion in amateur radio is that the market should be allowed to decide when it comes to new communications protocols.
In terms of amateur radio digital voice, D-STAR was the first to be widely accepted and, in my opinion, it still has some features that the other modes lack. D-STAR has been on the market in this country for something like 10 years. However, until Kenwood released their TH-D74 handheld, Icom was the only source for commercially-made transceivers. There are rumors, and I repeat that they are rumors, that Kenwood may be coming out with a mobile radio to replace the TM-D710 that has many of the features of the TH-D74 including D-STAR.
DMR was developed for the commercial radio world, but has gotten very popular in amateur radio because of the availability of inexpensive radios from China. But, a DMR radio can be a bit challenging to program and there are now multiple DMR networks in the U.S. that don't necessarily talk to each other.
Yaesu developed System Fusion to answer what they perceived as the shortcomings of the existing digital voice modes, but they have been very slow to develop additional features such as data communications.
Most of the proponents of digital voice modes tout the ability to link repeaters and talk to people at great distance using just a handheld radio. But, we've had analog repeater linking for years using systems such as Echolink and IRLP. Because those are analog repeaters, you don't need a special digital voice radio to use them.
Attend a local ham club meeting or look up some hams in your area that are active on VHF/UHF. Ask them what digital voice modes are popular in your area. In the end, though, I think you will find that most VHF/UHF repeater and simplex activity in your area is still analog.
In terms of amateur radio digital voice, D-STAR was the first to be widely accepted and, in my opinion, it still has some features that the other modes lack. D-STAR has been on the market in this country for something like 10 years. However, until Kenwood released their TH-D74 handheld, Icom was the only source for commercially-made transceivers. There are rumors, and I repeat that they are rumors, that Kenwood may be coming out with a mobile radio to replace the TM-D710 that has many of the features of the TH-D74 including D-STAR.
DMR was developed for the commercial radio world, but has gotten very popular in amateur radio because of the availability of inexpensive radios from China. But, a DMR radio can be a bit challenging to program and there are now multiple DMR networks in the U.S. that don't necessarily talk to each other.
Yaesu developed System Fusion to answer what they perceived as the shortcomings of the existing digital voice modes, but they have been very slow to develop additional features such as data communications.
Most of the proponents of digital voice modes tout the ability to link repeaters and talk to people at great distance using just a handheld radio. But, we've had analog repeater linking for years using systems such as Echolink and IRLP. Because those are analog repeaters, you don't need a special digital voice radio to use them.
Attend a local ham club meeting or look up some hams in your area that are active on VHF/UHF. Ask them what digital voice modes are popular in your area. In the end, though, I think you will find that most VHF/UHF repeater and simplex activity in your area is still analog.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Glad we could help.
Until you have an established need for digital, there really isn't any point in investing in a randomly chosen format.
I'd also caution about listening to any one amateur that claims you "must" have a specific digital mode. Until you know what you need, there's no point. If you get active in a club that heavily uses digital, then go for it. At this point, you'd be gambling.
The Kenwood is an established radio with a good following and lots of support. Steer clear of the low end Chinese stuff, especially if this is your first mobile.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Not sure. The one I had used an external GPS. I had a puck type receiver on the dashboard. I built a 12 volt to 5 volt regulator to power it that was under the dashboard.
Yes. You can configure the TM-D710G to output received APRS positions as GPS waypoints. But, that's probably not the best way to do it.
Because Kenwood lets you have full access to the internal TNC, you can run an APRS client program and connect to the internal TNC. APRSISCE/32 is particularly well-suited to be used with the TM-D710G as it can access the internal TNC for APRS position reports and the internal GPS receiver for lat/lon data.
I have both the Yaesu FT2900 and FT8800. Both use the same mic and each one has came apart. The one on the FT8800 in the car did last around 6 years. The mics aren't really made to be heavy duty and both of them had the PTT fall out. Really need to be easy on them when using the mics and not push the PTT button too hard. Also I don't know if was summertime heat or what, but also both had issues with the outer jacket of the mics coming apart.
Going forward I like the radios, but Yaesu needs to upgrade the mics with it being the part radios that takes a lot of abuse.
Going forward I like the radios, but Yaesu needs to upgrade the mics with it being the part radios that takes a lot of abuse.
There's a version of APRSISCE/32 that will run on Android phones or tablets.
TLDR; I would purchase the Yaesu over the Kenwood. (Review each manual for features you would truly use)
-------
I have the D710 in the vehicle and the 400XDR at home. I like and use them both. (Please note I use the Green Light Labs GPS with my older Kenwood D710A)
The 400XDR replaced a second D710A used at home. I was told my analog audio sounds better on the 400XDR over the D710.
I believe the 400XDR can also output its GPS data via the USB port to a computer. I read that somewhere but have not done it myself yet, so I cannot confirm.
Fusion sounds and works well on the 400XDR.
- Difference -
The Kenwood has a full on TNC, Yaesu is KISS.
The Yaesu is easier for me to send messages via APRS due to the onscreen keyboard. The Kenwood is not that bad if you are familiar with the old T9 keypad messaging on cell phones.
The bigger screen on the Yaesu is nice.
You can actually remotely control the Kenwood with another radio, wireless, to some degree. Change channel, power, etc. This is one of the manuals they provide.
- Programming -
I use RTSystems Software for my radios.
Yaesu provides the cable, or you can program/read a MicroSD card and never use the cable other than for firmware updates.
With Kenwood you need to make or buy the cable.
-------
I have the D710 in the vehicle and the 400XDR at home. I like and use them both. (Please note I use the Green Light Labs GPS with my older Kenwood D710A)
The 400XDR replaced a second D710A used at home. I was told my analog audio sounds better on the 400XDR over the D710.
I believe the 400XDR can also output its GPS data via the USB port to a computer. I read that somewhere but have not done it myself yet, so I cannot confirm.
Fusion sounds and works well on the 400XDR.
- Difference -
The Kenwood has a full on TNC, Yaesu is KISS.
The Yaesu is easier for me to send messages via APRS due to the onscreen keyboard. The Kenwood is not that bad if you are familiar with the old T9 keypad messaging on cell phones.
The bigger screen on the Yaesu is nice.
You can actually remotely control the Kenwood with another radio, wireless, to some degree. Change channel, power, etc. This is one of the manuals they provide.
- Programming -
I use RTSystems Software for my radios.
Yaesu provides the cable, or you can program/read a MicroSD card and never use the cable other than for firmware updates.
With Kenwood you need to make or buy the cable.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
