System Key and Trunking 'Issue'

laythrom · Mar 19, 2018

Okay...couple things first, 1. if this is in the wrong area, I apologize; feel free to move it to where it should be. 2. I am not sure if the topic/question is taboo, if so, I apologize and please don't kneecap me.

Basically, long story short...I have a friend in Alabama (firefighter) that sent me his XTS3000 800MHz (III) to have the scan list modified to his liking. That task was taken care of and radio was sent back, USPS dropped the box off on the porch and it was stolen (which is my fault for not thinking about listing the package as signature required, but I digress). Because of this, I ended up purchasing another XTS3000 800MHz (II) to replace his radio that was stolen and now I am having some issues.

My original hope of pushing the saved code plug to the radio is moot because the serial numbers obviously do not match and get an error window reminding me of this. In addition, exporting the "Trunking" information and attempting to import it into the new radio file kind of works, but the biggest issue of all is the System ID, Network ID information and Individual ID information. I have all of this information from his previous (and now stolen) radio but I am unable to change the new CPS information to correspond to the original data.

Is this a lost cause or should/can I lobby the system admin (in AL) for the key file so that I can program everything the way it was? Do I say screw it, program everything else the way that it was and have him get the ID information programmed down there? Or is there a way to push the original radio file that I saved to the new radio?

Basically, I'm just looking for information to try and get this problem unhosed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

clbsquared · Mar 19, 2018

I would replace his radio and let HIM take it to the system admin and explain what happened. The likelihood of them giving you a system key is slim to none, regardless of the situation. Replace the radio, apologize and step aside. In my opinion, that's your safest bet. You've already been tampering with a radio that was most likely owned by the agency it was programmed by. Hopefully it's a good enough friend to not place the blame solely on you. After all, he's the one that lost possession of the radio.

Just my two cents. YMMV.

laythrom · Mar 19, 2018

clbsquared said:
I would replace his radio and let HIM take it to the system admin and explain what happened. The likelihood of them giving you a system key is slim to none, regardless of the situation. Replace the radio, apologize and step aside. In my opinion, that's your safest bet. You've already been tampering with a radio that was most likely owned by the agency it was programmed by.

Just my two cents. YMMV.

I understand where you're coming from and will probably go that route anyway. But just to clarify, he purchased the (original) radio as a back up (not owned by BHam or Jefferson County Public Services); he just didn't want to pay to have the replacement reprogrammed as well.

I do appreciate the reply.

clbsquared · Mar 19, 2018

Did he have permission to add another radio to the system? If so, then that possibly changes everything. Of not, it's a very slippery slope. Tread carefully.

laythrom · Mar 19, 2018

clbsquared said:
Did he have permission to add another radio to the system? If so, then that possibly changes everything. Of not, it's a very slippery slope. Tread carefully.

Yes, he said that he did go through his required channels and was not exactly happy about it since it was a “pain in the [butt] and they (their admin shop) [f-ing] charged me $150 to do it”.

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Project25_MASTR · Mar 19, 2018

laythrom said:
Yes, he said that he did go through his required channels and was not exactly happy about it since it was a “pain in the [butt] and they (their admin shop) [f-ing] charged me $150 to do it”.

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Rule of thumb, unless the system owner has provided written permission to add radios to a system (and provided the system key) the system owner is the only one who can perform that part of the programming. Another thing to consider, does the XTS3000 replacement even have the same flash options as the radio that was stolen? Also, your friend needs to report the backup as stolen as it needs to be inhibited...

mmckenna · Mar 19, 2018

laythrom said:
Is this a lost cause or should/can I lobby the system admin (in AL) for the key file so that I can program everything the way it was?

As a system administrator (amongst other duties) I'd NEVER send my system key out to anyone. EVER.
Basically it's like sending a stranger a key to your home and hoping they won't do any harm while you are out of town. Not saying you would do that, but system keys are kept under control for a good reason.

I'll buy you a beer and eat my words if the system admin willingly sends you a copy of the system key.

If it's a SmartNet/SmartZone system, resist the urge to try and produce a counterfeit system key. That's the sort of stuff that gets people in legal trouble.

laythrom said:
But just to clarify, he purchased the (original) radio as a back up (not owned by BHam or Jefferson County Public Services);

If he needed a backup, the department should have purchased him one and paid to have it programmed.

Your buddy has put both of you in a tight spot. Best to carefully back out and walk away. You did what he asked you to do. The radio getting stolen is not really your responsibility.

Someone also needs to let the system admin know that the radio was stolen so that ID can be disabled in the system. They won't want a radio floating around out there in the wrong hands. —make sure he does this— it's important.

laythrom said:
he just didn't want to pay to have the replacement reprogrammed as well.

Sorry, but being a cheapskate doesn't change the way things work. If your buddy can afford a "backup radio" himself, he needs to cough up the dough to get it programmed by someone with a system key. I had my share of people bring me random radios off e-Bay and want me to put them on the system. Often they had the wrong flashcode. Sometimes they were even the wrong band.

laythrom · Mar 21, 2018

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. We’ve been talking with the shop in AL and I believe that we have a plan in place to get this rectified.

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exkalibur · Mar 21, 2018

mmckenna said:
As a system administrator (amongst other duties) I'd NEVER send my system key out to anyone. EVER.
Basically it's like sending a stranger a key to your home and hoping they won't do any harm while you are out of town. Not saying you would do that, but system keys are kept under control for a good reason.

I'm sure as a system administrator, you also know that you don't need to send a system key to anyone. There are instructions all over the weebs that talk about how to make one.

kayn1n32008 · Mar 21, 2018

exkalibur said:
I'm sure as a system administrator, you also know that you don't need to send a system key to anyone. There are instructions all over the web that talk about how to make one.

Not for a NXDN system...

mmckenna · Mar 21, 2018

exkalibur said:
I'm sure as a system administrator, you also know that you don't need to send a system key to anyone. There are instructions all over the weebs that talk about how to make one.

Not for all trunked systems. There are other systems than Motorola…

And this is exactly why I said:

mmckenna said:
If it's a SmartNet/SmartZone system, resist the urge to try and produce a counterfeit system key. That's the sort of stuff that gets people in legal trouble.

kayn1n32008 is correct:

kayn1n32008 said:
Not for a NXDN system...

I replaced my SmartNet system with a Kenwood NexEdge system in 2011. It requires a physical USB security key to program the radios, plus a skf. file that has the specifics on the system. I've taken it a step farther and require that the ESN for each and every radio be in the system matching the radio ID, or they won't connect (no TX, no RX), even if programmed with the system key.

Trunked system security is something that should be taken seriously. Unfortunately the "security" that Motorola sold many years ago was easily broken.

Project25_MASTR · Mar 21, 2018

exkalibur said:
I'm sure as a system administrator, you also know that you don't need to send a system key to anyone. There are instructions all over the weebs that talk about how to make one.

Only for Motorola subscribers and only if the flash doesn’t require the use of an ASK.

Getting system keys for other manufacturers subscribers isn’t as easy as finding Motorola’s old key generator.

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mikewazowski · Mar 21, 2018

The OP has this sorted out. No need for this thread to continue.

System Key and Trunking 'Issue'

laythrom

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clbsquared

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laythrom

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clbsquared

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laythrom

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Project25_MASTR

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mmckenna

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laythrom

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exkalibur

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kayn1n32008

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mmckenna

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Project25_MASTR

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mikewazowski

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